The Secrets Behind Writing a Bestseller with Jeneva Rose

Speaker: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do,

Andrea: I'm your host, Andrea Forcum, and I'm so excited today to have Jeneva Rose, who is a New York Times bestselling author of some of my own, personally, my favorite books. Um, I read, I think The Perfect Marriage, like a lot of people, um, were how they were first exposed to you. And then I went through and read, like, I've read, I think Think almost everything that you've written, so I'm so pleased to have you here today.

Thank you so much for coming, Jeneva. 

Jeneva: Thank you for having me, and thank you for the kind words. I appreciate it. 

Andrea: I also, um, I have it slightly out of frame, but I have, um, a really horrific looking blanket because it is It was, um, part of the re release of The Perfect Marriage. Um, I was one of the, the lucky few who got a box with a very soft white blanket that looks like it's got blood splatters all over it.

Jeneva: Yes, my, uh, feedback cup saying, throw more blood on it, throw more bloody handprints. Make it big. 

Andrea: I pulled it out of the, it was like a big box when it showed up. My husband's like, Andrea, what did you order? And I like pulled out like a blood splattered blanket and he's like, the question is still there.

What did you order? And I was like, no, no, no. I was like, this is great. And he's like, are you going to put that like, on the couch in the living room. And I was like, every October until for the rest of time, obviously. Um, and then you also sent out a really amazing candle that's, that says Scott hates, was it Scott probably hates this candle or Scott hates this candle?

Scott probably hates this candle. A genius, genius. So the way that I came across you at first, before I'd read any of your books was actually a response to my book. To Scott, um, do you want to explain for people who maybe haven't come across that yet who Scott is? 

Jeneva: Absolutely. So Scott is a disfrontal reader who decided to email me on the eve of Christmas Eve and to tell me how much he hated my book.

Uh, he told me I should stay out of literature. He told me to write a better book and I've gotten plenty of hate emails before and I never respond. Um, but because of the timing, I decided to respond to his email and it was passive aggressive. I just said, you know, thank you for reading. I hope you and your family have a happy holidays and have a new year.

And I figured most people would be like, Oh my God, there's a human responding to me now on Christmas Eve, I should either apologize or just not say anything and maybe do some self reflection. Scott did not Scott decided to double down and email me again, basically saying how terrible I am as a writer and how my book sucks.

So at that point I was. I was at my brother's because I was there for Christmas and I went down because I was staying in the basement like there's a bedroom down there and I recorded that first video and I went up and showed it to them like my brothers and then my husband and they were like don't post that don't and I said no.

He's being reduced to content, this is it, like, and so I posted it and ended up going viral, Scott got wind of it, and he continued to email me, he emailed me six times, and each time I was just replying via TikTok, and he would get wind of it, watch it, and then reply again via the email, so it came, it turned this whole thing Where even like booksellers were putting little placards next to my books and stories that say don't listen to Scott or Scott was wrong.

People had like anti Scott merch and it just kept snowballing and it's the longest running internet joke because I stopped talking about it for a while. People were like, Do you have an update on Scott? What's going on with Scott to this day? So it's been, it's, it's been so great. 

Andrea: Yeah. And I'm sure it's got to bother him so much that like his hatred of your writing has actually led to so many people discovering it and loving it.

Like that's really got to, does he ever still reach out or has he gone silent now? 

Jeneva: He went silent. The last one was when I found out people were review bombing his business. And so I told them, like, I put out a video saying, like, we don't do that, not even Scott would do that because he doesn't know where reviews go, he thinks they go in my email inbox, and so people deleted all their reviews, and then he stopped after that because he realized, I'm not a bad person, I'm just a bad writer.

Andrea: Which you are categorically not a bad writer, you're an excellent writer, but I love that you used what we, you know, always get on the internet, like, like the hate, and anytime you create something and have the boldness to put it out there, we, we all kind of like run the risk of getting that kind of feedback.

Um, have you yet, or will you in the future create a character, um, to kill off? With the name of Scott. What's funny 

Jeneva: is there's a Scott in The Perfect Marriage, and that's the book he hated, and I was like, maybe he didn't like that. I also did, my husband and I wrote an audio original called Hashtag Crime Time, and we put an officer Scott in there who's That's a complete douche, um, but I'll probably do like another Scott in the future as a little another nod to my Scott, my pen pal.

I love it. 

Andrea: Your, your pen pal Scott, I love that so much. So now, I would love to know, I'm always so fascinated about, The process of writers, because I feel like it's very individualistic and we only get to see the, the very end beautiful thing that ends up, you know, in our mailboxes and on the shelves and all of that kind of stuff.

What is the process for, for you? Are you the person who has like, like the crazy conspiracy theorist board with strings going places or how do you get started? I 

Jeneva: wish I had that. That'd be really cool. Um. I am, I, there are so many different processes where I'm like, when I talk to other authors, I'm like, Oh my God, how do you do it that way?

I could never. So mine is like, I come from a marketing background. Um, I worked in social media, digital marketing, email marketing for a decade before I became a full time author. And I always think of the marketing. So if I can't summarize the book in a sentence or two, I won't start writing it because I'm like, I need that hook.

I understand that. You know, you really, in this day and age, you only have a few seconds to grab someone's attention because we are all ready to scroll, ready to go. Um, so I make sure I have that. I write the back marketing copy also, which is usually a thing like a publisher does, but I like to write that.

Um, and then I do, like, character sketches, setting sketches, and then I do, uh, rough outlines. So maybe I outline half the book, or I outline the whole book, but it's very bare bones. And I do all my research ahead of it. Once I have all of that, I start writing. And then I can write a draft, like the first draft, in about 2 3 months because I have all that prep work done.

Gotcha. And that's kind of how I do it. There are some people that don't plot or anything and they just write it and then I'm like, I don't know how you do that. I don't know what my book would be if I did not have some idea of where it was going. 

Andrea: Yeah. So now when you do your writer days, are you like locked in and doing like 12 hour days or do you pace yourself with like word counts?

How does it work for you? Yeah. Yeah. 

Jeneva: Um, before I became a full time author, so like the perfect marriage, I only could write that on weekends, and I would do full days. I was writing 10, 000 word days. Um, since I've become full time, which was in March of 2021, I try to keep it like 2, 000 words a day, Monday through Friday, when I am drafting.

That gives me a full draft in about two and a half months, if I, as long as I stick to my schedule. Um, some days I have longer days, some times they're less. I try to keep it that, but then if I have a deadline and then all of a sudden I'm having to binge write, which I do my best work when I'm under pressure, so a lot of times it turns into, Oh, I didn't get my work done.

I need to binge write. So, 

Andrea: that's 

Jeneva: kind of 

Andrea: how it goes. Gotcha. That makes sense. You, you mentioned how you made that transition in 2021 from having to do it on the weekends to now it's full time. What has it been like for you to go from like aspiring author to now selling like millions of copies of the perfect marriage?

Like, like, that is so why? Cause like, I'll have videos that get like a million views or something, but Like millions of people putting money down to get your story. Like how has things changed for you since that happened? 

Jeneva: Um, I really thought, I like, people always think like when you become a full time author you think of like the movies.

Like I'm going to go to a cafe, I'm going to spend it there, and I'm going to just be looking out my window. So I thought I would have like Very easy job then that I'd be like a normal amount of work versus before where I was working full time and basically writing full time on the side and I actually think I work more now that it's my full time job because I have the social media which my publishers expect me to keep that up and that's just the industry nowadays, um.

And then I have to do, you know, all of meeting with my different publishers. I have to, I write multiple books a year. So I work more and keeping up with my social media, I try to engage as much as possible. And I don't just create content that surrounds my books. I usually have fun stuff. So, um, it's a, it's a lot more.

And then I have like my reader group on Facebook. I have a newsletter that I'm terrible at keeping up with. Uh, it's just constant. And so I, it's, I, I didn't think I'd be back. I don't know. I thought it would be way different. I wouldn't give it up though. It's my dream job. It's just, it's harder than I thought it would be.

Andrea: Yeah. I do feel like there's this image of like, well, once you've become, even just New York Times bestseller, like there's this image of what that means for an author's life because that's always like one of the first big like landmark, like, oh my gosh, I can put that on my book now. I'm a New York Times bestseller.

And you immediately assume like, well, that's it. That's the fame and fortune line right there. Like once you do that, you're done and you can just cruise. But the life, like every author I've talked to is like, 

no, 

Jeneva: because then the publisher is like, I remember I hit with, you shouldn't have come here, I hit 14, although I should have been seven.

Um, and then my publisher was like, well, next time we want to get you top 10. And then when it got around to that book coming out, we're like, they're like, we're thinking we're gonna, you're gonna get top five, which with Home is Where the Bodies Are, I got number three. And then literally the call, they tell me that I hit New York Times.

They're like, yeah, we want to get number one next time. And I'm like, stop putting this pressure on me. I can't control that. 

Andrea: Yeah, you're like, I'm actually writing the best book I can anyways. You guys don't need to put that on me as well. Yeah. Like, that's, that's a lot. Um, yeah, it is, it is fascinating, cause like, it almost takes away the opportunity to celebrate when there's always that pressure for like, that's great and everything.

A million books is great, but what about 2 million? And you don't even get to celebrate kind of the, the achievement. So have you, I've gotten to, to kind of have that moment and like revel in it a little bit with the success of The Perfect Marriage and the re release and all of that. 

Jeneva: I try to, like one thing I remember like when I, um, first started and then I started hitting these milestones and I noticed, and I think that's with any career, you're like, okay, you've kept moving the goalpost.

And I had to tell myself if I have this mindset where I keep moving the goalpost, I will never enjoy what I'm accomplishing right now. And I will never be. You know, just happy. And I told my, so I don't do that to myself anymore. And I did for so long where I was like, Oh, I've got five foreign rights deals.

Now I want 10. Now I want 15. And I've hit all these big goals. There are obviously goals. I would like to actually like have one of my books turned into a movie, which one's in the process. Um, but I'm not going to like count it until I actually, you know, it's green lit. Um, those, like, those types of goals, which were always, like, the big dreams, but, uh, they're still there, but I'm not doing this goalpost thing anymore, so even when, like, my publisher is like, you hit number three, next time we hit number one, I literally said, can't you just be happy for right now?

That's what I said to them. Yeah. And they were like, oh my god, we are happy. And I was like, good, let me be happy then. Right. Let me enjoy this. 

Andrea: Yeah, like maybe send flowers and say congratulations and let me have a moment to just live in that. 

Jeneva: Actually, I told them to send me a cake that said that, uh, I told you so because, uh, I fought so hard for the Home is Where the Bodies Are VHS cover.

For six weeks I fought for that cover. And so then they sent me a cake with the cover on it and it said like Jeneva was where I told you so. I'm also petty. 

Andrea: I love it. I love it. It's so good. Um, so how do you, when you're going in to write these characters and you said, um, used a phrase of an authory phrase of how you like develop these characters, do you do those like individually?

Individually? Individually? 

Jeneva: Yeah, so I call them, I call them character sketches. Um. Okay. I don't know if anyone else uses, I mean, I'm sure that's a term. Uh, so like, I start like just by trying to get to know the characters and the biggest thing is like naming them, cause um, you give something a name. Like, you get a new puppy and you give it a name and all of a sudden it has a personality around that name, or kind of.

Um, so I give them a name and then I start building them out like how I picture them. Um, and I try to do everything I possibly can with the characters, so, from things I might never use. Like, I'm not gonna fully describe them sometimes, um, but I'll fully describe them for myself, or do comps to, like, maybe who I think it kinda looks like, maybe it's a reality TV star, or celebrity, in that way, it's really easy to picture, um, and then little quirks, personality traits, how they're connected to other characters, I keep building them out, and if I can't get in their headspace and I know they're gonna be There are gonna be a, uh, main character.

I will even do situational stuff, like, hey, if this character got, um, into a car accident, how would they react? Would they cry? Would they call the police? Would they scream at the other person? Would they admit fault? And through that, you can really get to know a person, and I'll keep doing that, and, cause there were some characters that were so hard to get into that I had to do so much situational stuff to really feel like I knew the character, that I could easily go into that character's head, cause I write multiple points of view.

So it's very important that I'm in each character's head, so then it's easier for the reader to know, like, they don't have to flip back to the first chapter. Like, who is this? Who's talking here? 

Andrea: So, when you're going about building out all of these characters and all of that, do you ever go back and, like, Add quirks or add different things just to, because your characters are, they manage to be both very relatable, but still have an unpredictable quality.

You know, you, you write thrillers and then you've read some, you've written like some, I don't know, would you, would you call it romance? Like romantic? Like, how would you genre yourself? 

Jeneva: I don't fit into a genre, I mean, I'm known for my thrillers, but I have, um, a rom com, It's a Date Again. The girl I was, I would consider speculative fiction, that's actually getting re released, and I've completely, like, edited it and added more points of view in there, um, so that's, that hasn't been, or it's been announced, but the cover hasn't been revealed yet.

Okay. Um, but yeah, I write in multiple genres, I'll have a horror coming out in 2026, um, And then a post apocalyptic zombie enemies to lovers romance coming out in fall 2025. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. So what is your favorite type of writing to do? Do you have a favorite or do you just like the variety? 

Jeneva: I mean, I, uh, thrillers are my bread and butter, but I really, really, so the post apocalyptic zombie enemies to lovers romance, the genre I call that is unhinged because it's, every genre there is, it's horror, it's thriller, it's romance, it's dramatic, it's, it's everything.

Um, that one I loved writing. It's called Dating After the End of the World, and I just loved it because it's got humor, it's got gore, it's kind of scary and thrilling. It's romantic and sexy. It's everything you could think it is. And I loved writing that. So like, that's one I want to write. I'm actually writing a sequel to it.

So, but otherwise, I would say thrillers. I really love, like, trying to fool someone and, oh, I want you to think this. And then I also kind of want you to think this if you're a really clever reader, you're going to think that this is it, but really it's, it's over here. It's, it's like a puzzle trying to pull it together of like, because when I read a book, um, I'm always guessing and if a book fools me, but it's like, I was like, why didn't I see that?

I think that's so well done. And just, it's really, I don't know, it's just, Blows your mind at the end, and you're like, wow, that was smart, um, and why didn't I think of that? So I try to do that with my books. Like, I want you to be entertained throughout, but at the end, I want you to be like, why didn't I even think of that?

Sometimes I pull it off, sometimes I don't, but that's my 

Andrea: goal. Now what, is that the kind of book that you also enjoy reading, is thrillers, or do you have like, like, what is your, your comfort book? Like if you're headed to Barnes and Noble and you are, you know, independent book, you Bookseller. Um, what, where do you tend to end up?

What aisle? 

Jeneva: See, I like thrillers. And that was, um, so thrillers are probably my favorite. I also like romance books and I like horror novels and I like some post apocalyptic novels. So I think that's why it's been really fun to write in different genres is because I do like to read in different genres and being able to kind of, it flexes different muscles to writing muscles, writing in these different genres.

Andrea: Nice. Do you have any favorite authors or favorite books in those genres? 

Jeneva: Um, in thrillers, one of my favorite books is The Kind Worth Killing by Peter Swanson. I always say that's a book I wish I would have written because it's so smartly done and he takes some risks in there. I also love Verity. I love The Last Mrs.

Parrish. Um, in romance, I love The Hating Game and The Kiss Quotient. And it ends with us. Everyone loves that one. Of course. Horror, I love a lot of Stephen King novels. I also love Grady Hendrix. And Paul Tremblay. 

Andrea: And I actually, uh, interviewed Paul Tremblay on a different podcast I used to have. Um, and I met him at a, a book fair and didn't know who he was.

Um, and, and, and he, I was actually there to see, um, another author and just ended up chatting with him and he was so lovely. And he, I was, I asked him like, what, like, what's a book I should, I should read of yours. It's really good. And it was the. It was so dark. He and Stephen King both are so dark. It gives me a stomach ache when I read their stuff.

I'm trying to, I can't remember the one that I read. of ghosts or? Yes. That's it? Yep. That's it. Yep. It gave me a full on stomach ache. And every time, like, it was such an experience reading it. Can't read it again. You know, like one of those. Which is how I feel about Stephen King as well. Sorry if I cut you off.

No, 

Jeneva: no, no. That's all. I can't think of any more. I blink all the time. I have a funny story about Paul Tremblay. It was because his book was announced after Home is Where the Bodies Are. And it also has a VHS tape. And I was like, dang it. But I was at, Barnes and Noble does this thing where they bring all these authors in.

And it was last March. And I was with Mary Kobika, and she was like, isn't there another author that has a cover that looks like similar to Home is Where the Bodies Are Coming Out? And I was like, yeah, it's Paul Tremblay, and he was right in front of me, and he's like, hello? And I'm like, this is not how I wanted to meet you.

I'm a big fan. We just have similar covers. 

Andrea: That's so great. Yeah, he's, he's a nice guy. He's actually, um, I think he's still teaching as well. He's like a, a math teacher or something. Yeah. At, um, a school in the, the Northeast area. But, um, that actually perfectly transitions us to my next question, which is, did you have any teachers that you had, like, experienced an English class and they particularly influenced you in your writing journey?

Jeneva: Um, I cannot remember my one teacher's name, which, uh, really makes me sad. It was in college, though. And I can't, I can't for the life of me remember her. But it was like a creative writing class, and she, I need to look it up because I don't. I, it's, it was like a college that I transferred from. So I like blocked it all out.

Um, but she was amazing. She, it was a creative writing class and she pushed me so hard to write things that it was, I was working through a lot of grief at the time and she, she kept pushing me where she was just like, this is cliche and I know you can do better. I know this is difficult cause this is very raw for you.

And I remember being so mad at her. Like how, like kind of like a, how dare you tell me like what I can and cannot write about like my grief. And, but she was like, I'm going to give you an extension through the end of the semester. And I ended up writing probably my favorite pieces I've ever written. And it was about my mom who had just passed.

So I forever cherish her to, for that moment, to these pieces I have that really captured how I was feeling and it captured my mom. That she taught me that sometimes, you know, writing through those emotions is very, very difficult, but it's therapeutic, and you come out on the other side with something beautiful.

Um, she's, and it makes me so mad, I can't remember her name, which is really, she's like one that taught me the, I don't know why, I was just, probably because I was so mad, and my mom, mom had passed away, so I was just, not myself, I need to look her up though. Um. I have my speech teacher, who she introduced me.

I had an event at my high school. It was like a homecoming, which was funny because, you know, they impeached me as class president at that school. I was, I was reinstated though. 

Andrea: Oh my god. How do you get impeached from, from class president? 

Jeneva: Because the popular girl wanted to be it. And then I was sick for a week.

So they scheduled two student council meetings that week. And then, so I missed two, which was. a way to get axed and i came back and they're like you're not class president i was like 15 i'm like crying my eyes out i'm like why oh my gosh that is wild and what's ridiculous is if she would have ran she would have beat me like she was a popular girl but she didn't run And so I was reinstated a week later.

Um, but my speech teacher was funny cause she introduced me and her voice was shaking so much. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, you're the one that taught me how to speak in front of people. And I go out there and I do it. And she, at the end, she's like, Oh my God, you're like, how did you do that? You are just so natural up there.

And I was like, well, I'm like, I've done it so many times now that it comes natural. I'm like, plus you taught me. And I'm like, and I thought you'd be better at this. And she's like, no, no, I can speak in front of my students, not in front of like 300 people that are adults too. Yeah. I was like. Oh my gosh. So she was one I was like, well, I want to thank you because I didn't really think I would need speech in my career because I thought I'd probably work in social media or something.

Also didn't know it as an author that I would have to be speaking in front of hundreds of people. But I was like, thank you for teaching me. 

Andrea: Right. Yeah, that is one of the wild things about being an author right now is that it does seem like it's, it's no longer just like you sit in your house and write books, you sit in your house and write books and post on social media and are marketing yourself and, and all of that.

So it does end up being A lot more than I think people realize when they initially, um, get involved in, in writing and wanting to like push their books and stuff. When you published your first book, what was your online platform like? Did you have many followers or? Um, 

Jeneva: I 

Andrea: mean, 

Jeneva: I wasn't 

Andrea: on 

Jeneva: TikTok yet because TikTok, my, my, my book published in July of 2020, and I feel like TikTok kicked off in like 2019 toward the end of 2019.

Um, and I had, you know, during 2020, I had gotten on there just to see what the app was. I had an Instagram, uh, with like a decent following on there because I used to do Vine back in the day. I had a pretty big following on there. Um, just like comedy videos. And then, like, my Twitter was decently sized, or X, or whatever it is now, because of Vine.

Um, and then just, like, a Facebook page. I really didn't have You know, like anything big, I just started growing it. Cause otherwise it was just for like, I was in college and then I was working full time and it was just like friends and family. 

Andrea: Right. 

Jeneva: Kind of thing. And then whatever people I had accumulated through my time on the internet.

Andrea: Gotcha. That makes sense. All right. Well, that is a perfect place for us to take a quick break. And when we come back, we are going to talk about the perfect marriage. So we'll be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. Um, so I am really excited to talk about The Perfect Marriage. Um, it's going to be part of our inaugural Patreon book club thing that we're going to be doing. Um, but as part of this, I have to tell you, my producer Rob, he immediately got the book so that he could be like, yeah.

Up with everything. And he decided it would be a good idea. He was with his dad, um, to read the, um, prologue out loud with his father right there. And guys, if you haven't read the book yet, the, the prologue has some spice in it. At the very beginning. Um, 

Jeneva: Do you want to know something really funny about that prologue?

What? Is I was, obviously I was working full time and I was driving into work and I thought of that prologue and I was going right into a meeting. So I like pull out my notebook and I'm writing it and my boss thought I was taking notes, but I wrote that prologue while sitting in that meeting. 

Andrea: Can you imagine if he was like, Hey, could you actually, uh, share the notes you're taking?

That would be wonderful if you could. Um, could you, for those who are unfamiliar with the book, give that, you know, two second or two sentence, um, summary of what they're getting into when they read The Perfect Marriage? 

Jeneva: Absolutely. Uh, The Perfect Marriage is about a top criminal defense attorney who faces her most challenging case yet, when she vows to defend her husband, a man accused of murdering his mistress.

Yeah. 

Andrea: I have to ask. Um, did this book come from, like, you thinking, like, wow, if my husband cheated on me, you know, what would we, what would we do? Like, it, it just, to me, like, immediately I thought of the times that I've had dreams about my husband cheating on me and I wake up the next morning still mad at him, you know?

And he has to apologize for what his dream self did. Yeah, and I'm like. Do you know what dream Steven did last night? And he's like, what did that bastard do? Tell me, tell me about it. And I'm like, he cheated on me. He left me and our two kids. And I got to tell you, like, I, and then my brain goes down like this crazy anxiety rabbit hole of like, wow, if he did that, what, what would happen?

What would I do? How would I handle that? And like, the, the extra twist here of the main character being a defense attorney and then being like, you know what, I'm gonna defend him is wild. Like, how did you come up with the plot for 

Jeneva: this? I don't have a good, like, I usually, a lot of my stories, I have a good, like, I don't know, aha moment that I came up with it.

This one, it was back, like, in 2013, and I was actually writing screenplays as, like, a hobby. That's, um, scripts for film. And I was mostly writing, like, comedies. And then I really wanted to write a thriller, because that's what I love to read. And this, literally, that's how it popped in my head. And it was actually Rachel Sanford, top criminal defense attorney.

And I didn't use Rachel, I obviously used Sarah Morgan instead, and that's how it popped into my head, and I wrote it down in a notebook, but I never wrote it as a script, and then I did not actually write it, oh it was actually 2009 was when I thought of it, um, and I did not actually write it until 2017.

After I'd written my first book and I was like, I want to write a thriller and that idea was just gnawing at me. It was still there. My brother had been like, that's the fugitive. And I was like, what? And he was like, yeah, that's the plot of the fugitive. And so before I wrote this, I went to family video because like, I didn't, there wasn't like really rent on demand at the time.

And I go and rent it, and then it's all scratched up, well there was rent on demand but it was like 5 I can get it for a dollar, and I went there, it's all scratched up, it won't play, and so then I had to rent it and pay 4. 99 for it, I was not happy about that. Um, and I watched it and at the end it was nothing like it, and I called my mom, and I'm like, how dare you, and he had told me that back in 2009 when I told him the idea, he's like, that's the fugitive, and I was just like, oh, okay, and I set it aside.

And then what a hater. Oh, but he credits himself now because he's like, if you would have wrote it earlier, it might not have been as good. So you're welcome. 

Andrea: Oh, of course. That's such siblings too, to be like, you're welcome. Actually, all that success that you've had, um, despite me pooh poohing your idea, uh, you're welcome for all of it.

That is classic siblings. What has it been like? For you with, with having the spice that is in there. And it's so funny because I read this book a while ago, over a, over a year ago. And then I read it again with the upcoming book club and I had like told everyone like, yeah, go ahead and get the book. And I didn't, I didn't remember the spice, um, until I got that message from my producer being like, so I read the prologue aloud and I'm like, What was in the prologue?

And I was like, Oh, what has that been like with people, you know, you know, reading something that is, you know, because we generally don't talk the way we write. And when I always wonder that when you've got spice in books, how is that received from family members? 

Jeneva: What's really funny was the original version was way spicier.

Like it was. Borderline pornographic and it was cut because it didn't pass what they call the train test. Um, would you be okay if someone saw over your shoulder what you were reading and it did not pass that. Um, and apparently, who decides that? It was the publisher that was like, the only edits I got was to cut the, a lot of the spice down.

And I was like, that's fine. But I like, had my in laws read it. Apparently I had no shame. I'm like, this is art, I guess. I wrote this. This isn't like me at all. This is just in my head, I guess. This is, I'm not describing me. I had no shame. I just let people read it. Like, and then my, my brother was like, reading aloud.

He was like, what the heck is wrong with you? Jeez. I was like, I was like, I should have some shame about this. But I was just like, it's a book. It's fiction. Yeah, like I'm writing my real life story. So sometimes Like, my dad, like, I wouldn't let him read that, you know, I'd be like, no, you're not reading that.

Like, my post apocalyptic romance book, there's a, quite a big spicy seed in there, and so I'm just like, we're gonna give you a redacted version, dad. So he's probably the only one that I'm like, I don't want you to. 

Andrea: That's fair. I've thought about that because I'm working on like a teacher advice book and obviously no spice in that book, but there's some swearing occasionally, but my parents really, it really grates on them when they see any kind of swearing.

And so I was like, I'm going to get like an early copy. Um, and I'm just going to like take a Sharpie to it before sending it to my dad so that it doesn't stress him out reading it. I just know that he's gonna like, he'll be like, it was good. I wish, I wish there was less language actually. 

Jeneva: Wish there was less 

Andrea: cussing.

Yeah, exactly. So I just wondered if that was the same for you. Now how is it, how do you choose what you're going to read when you do book signings or go and, you know, do an event and they want you to read an excerpt? How do you choose, especially with a thriller where you don't want to give too much away, you know, how do you choose which parts to read?

Jeneva: Well, my book events, I call them stand up comedy shows, uh, they are not like normal book events at all. It's usually me, um, giving like a five minute spiel about like, maybe like how I came up with the idea or a little bit about the book. And then I just toss it to Q and A and I do like 35, 40 minutes of Q and A.

So they're with a ton of jokes. Um, I get a lot of my readers, cause I did a 11 city book tour for Homeless Where the Book Bodies Are. And so many people that come up to me, they're like, your book events are so much fun. I've never went to a book event like this because before I became an author, I would go to book events to watch authors that I love.

And it's always like in conversation. And I'm like, this is interesting to me because I am an aspiring author. But if I was just a reader, I don't think this would be as entertaining because it's like they're talking to each other and you're just kind of watching them talk to each other. And so sometimes I will do it in conversation, just if an author asks if I'll do one.

Um, but I try to limit it because I'm always like, I want to talk with you guys, not at you guys, or you watch me talk to someone else. I have only read an excerpt at one of my events, and it was a kickoff party for Home is Where the Bodies Are before it was released, and it was just a, I was in New York and the Staten Island Barnes Noble wanted me to have an event there, and so I was like, I'm actually gonna be in New York so we could do a, I don't have a book out right now.

Um, they're like, let's do a pre order Home is Where the Bodies Are party. So I read the first chapter of that book, and that was the only time I've ever read anything. I have read on TikTok Live, where I started reading Home is Where the Bodies Are, and I had like hundreds of people watching me just read, and they were like, read more.

I ended up reading six chapters, and I was like, I need to stop because this book isn't out yet. 

Andrea: Right, you're getting a free audiobook right now. Yeah, 

Jeneva: so I enjoyed doing it there, but otherwise I'm like, You don't want to hear me read. You want to hear the audiobook narrators read it. They are professionals.

I sometimes mispronounce my words because I only have to write them, I don't have to speak them. So that's always my excuse. 

Andrea: Yeah. Do you get to choose who the narrator is going to be in your books? I do. I have 

Jeneva: full cover, final cover approval and final narrator approval. That's awesome. 

Andrea: Yeah, because I love power.

I, yeah, cause I, the first, I think the first time I read your book, it was via audio book and then I got like the hard copy, um, this time around and the, the narrator is fantastic. Does she, she do more than just, um, the perfect marriage? Does she do your other books as well? 

Jeneva: Oh, for the, the original perfect or perfect marriage, I did not have a say in that one.

It wasn't, and I didn't have a say in the Kimberly King series. It wasn't until I, because I was fresh, you know, no one's going to give me a say, um, but now I do, and actually the perfect marriage with all the edits I did on it, um, and the rewrites, it actually has new narrators, so it'll be re released with all the edits, um, otherwise, I've cast all my other ones for Home is Where the Bodies Are, You Shouldn't Have Come Here, One of Us is Dead.

There, a lot of times I like, I end up like, I've actually met a lot of these narrators too. I did not realize that audiobook narrators like have fans where they go to a conference and readers are like, Oh my God. And I was like, really? And they're like, Oh yeah, they love our voices. 

Andrea: That is so funny. Well, and you know, it's one of those things that I feel like could be overlooked, but this, it is one of those that when it's done poorly.

You notice, you know, like, if, if you have a narrator, like, I feel like some of the, the books I've listened to, um, where it's like a guy trying to put on a falsetto, um, for a female character or something like that, or the, when it's like a female narrator and, you know, Like, goes way too hard on, like, the, the gravel voice or something like that, it, it's very noticeable.

So having a good narrator, like, I, I could see, like, following specific narrators around and all that, that's, that's really cool. And speaking of casting, um, can, can you share that you said one of your books has been optioned? Can you share which book it is? Oh, it's the perfect 

Jeneva: marriage. Yay! Yeah. So, 

Andrea: are you, are you gonna get to have a say on who's cast as the, the characters?

Well, I have an 

Jeneva: executive producer title. Originally it was consulting producer, but I got it upgraded through an option extension. Amazing. Um. That sounds very fancy. The script, I don't know what it's gonna mean. I think it's more of just a vanity title, which I'm into it. I mean, right. I'll be on the credits, so.

Right. Exactly. Um. Uh, they're supposed to have the script finished, like, the final script is supposed to be done in December, and their plan is to actually start filming in Q end of Q1 of 2025, so Wow. Very quick. They have not told me anything about casting. They've hinted to things to me that they are looking at, but nothing is set in stone.

I don't think they would tell me until contracts were signed, because even when they did tell me, Like, who the director and screenwriter was originally, which that's out there now, um, they were like, they wouldn't tell me then, because they're like, you are really on social media, so we're gonna wait until, like, these are signed, and then we're gonna tell you the contracts.

I was like, okay. That makes sense. Probably for the best. 

Andrea: Um, are, are you willing to say, if you had, like, your dream casting, who you would cast as, like, the main roles? 

Jeneva: Um, as Sarah Morgan, I would want Margot Robbie. Obviously, she's very in demand, but my god, she could play that part. She could play any part.

Um, and then, I feel like Adam could be so many different actors. Um, when I was writing him, I was picturing Jake Gyllenhaal, uh, I don't know. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's what I was picturing when I was writing him. But I've had so many, I could see, I just think Sarah Morgan needs to be such a force of nature, and I think Margot Robbie.

I also could see, like, Um, I think it would be funny, like, I don't think it would happen, but it would just be kind of funny if it was Reese Witherspoon because she played a lawyer in Legally Blonde and then she plays Sarah Markin. 

Andrea: I love it. Yeah. 

Jeneva: But, um, otherwise, Samara Weaving from Ready or Not, I don't know if you saw that movie.

I, I haven't seen that one yet. Great movie. Um, maybe like a Jennifer Lawrence, although I think she is too, maybe she's a little too soft, you know? Mm. Yeah. But, definitely a Margot Robbie, or a Blake Lively. 

Andrea: So good. I still haven't seen, um, oh, It Ends With Us, I still need to see it. It's really good. I have, I've, I've, I loved the book, I just have to be, you know how you have to like get in the right like mental headspace sometimes to, to watch some of those?

Jeneva: Especially too, if like, I have to get in the mental headspace if I've already read the book. So it actually took me a while to like watch it because I was like, I don't want it to like ruin what I read. Right. But I don't So 

Andrea: yeah, so have you seen how they've changed the your story for the script yet? Or is that something that you haven't gotten your hands on yet for the perfect marriage potential movie?

Jeneva: I have not seen the script yet. I'm supposed to see it in December. And then We shall see. But I'm like, I completely understand that a film, telling it through a film is so different from a book. And I get you sometimes have to cut characters or add characters or combine characters. So as long as they stick with the overall plot, I'm good with that.

Andrea: Yeah, that actually, interestingly enough, that was something I talked to Paul Tremblay about because they were in the midst of, um, Turning one at the one the cabin one. Mm hmm. Cabin at 

Jeneva: the end of the world. 

Andrea: Yes. And we were talking about what that process is like for him. You know, you create this world and these characters and all of that, and then you take this little baby and you hand it over and then, you know, it becomes a film and it becomes its own kind of thing that, you know, is you but not you and all of that so i think that that's ends up being a whole you know and i feel like that's kind of like that with writing in general like you create this thing and then you do your best and you send it out into the world and it just you know it has to kind of swim on its own at that point so um that is i think one of one of the got to be one of the more challenging things is to not Obsess on the perception of all of that.

Um, I mean, especially when you have Scots out there. 

Jeneva: Or like, I think some things are so clear and it's like, you know, people that like speed read and they miss things where I've gotten like DMs and they're like, wait, what happened? What was this? And it's so clearly spelled out in the end. I'm like, I'm not answering your question.

You go back and reread. Well, like this one, they asked about like, wait, what happened in the end of this one? And I'm like, oh my God. Come on. Wait, how? Yeah. I've 

Andrea: gotten those. I'd be so annoyed. 

Jeneva: Or, like, where I, like, you know, there's some things I just read between the lines, or it's like, there's clues throughout and people miss them, but I, I mean, to me, it's like, well, they're so blatant, but I wrote it, so they're, they're blatant to me, and I want to be able to, like, explain it.

Sometimes I do, like, in my reader group, if people ask, I'll go through and, like, these are the things, like, you missed in this book, or things you may have, may overlooked, or if you don't know. Um, certain like, I like to play around a lot with psychology and so if you don't know like a, a certain personality disorder or how their, the traits would be with that personality disorder, you might not pick it up until it's revealed in the end and even those clues you don't know because you're not familiar with the personality disorder.

Andrea: Interesting. So do you diagnose your characters with personality disorders when you're doing your character sketches? Oh yeah, they all have personality disorders. That's a part of my research. You should have like the, what is it, the DSM 5 or whatever, the manual for mental disorders. You could just send it as like a companion to your books.

I 

Jeneva: do have it. Well, it's packed up now, but yeah, it's packed up. 

Andrea: I love that. Yeah, you should, that could be part of it. Like you, you get like the new collector's edition of The Perfect Marriage and the manual for psychological disorders. Yeah, a 

Jeneva: free, a freebie. 

Andrea: Right? People can really dig in. Um, so for the next, Chapter of, um, what you've got going on.

You've got, you know, the special edition coming out of the perfect marriage. When does that one come out? 

Jeneva: November 26th. 

Andrea: Okay. So by the time this airs guys, it's already out, but you have a sequel coming out as well, right? Yes. 

Jeneva: It's called the perfect divorce, um, obviously, and it comes out April 15th, 2025.

Andrea: I'm so very excited. I. Read the summary of it and I don't think I really want us to share the summary of it until people have read the perfect marriage. 

Jeneva: Oh yeah, what I say about it this is not like one of my clean little like here's the synopsis or here's what it's about because I can't so what I basically say is It takes place one year after the perfect marriage ends, and there is a new relationship obviously, which you find out at the end of the perfect marriage, but there has been some infidelity, and they're going through a divorce, and then the case, the Kelly Summers case, which is happening in the perfect marriage, is reopened, due to newly discovered evidence, so you have this divorce in the midst of this newly Open case.

And then the person that was sleeping with one of the partners, um, goes missing. I'm so excited. I cannot 

Andrea: wait. It's gonna be so much fun. I love it. And you have, like, at any given time, how many books are you writing? Because you mentioned you've got that one coming out. You've got the zombie. Thriller, apocalyptic romance, I can't remember how you, how you qualify it.

That was perfect. Like, I wrote, right, you've got how, like, when is that one coming out, because I'm also so excited about that one. 

Jeneva: This, um, that comes out fall of 2025. This, this has been a lot where I have the Perfect Marriage re release, which I did edits on that book, wrote a new bonus chapter, and obviously I wrote the Perfect Divorce Fresh.

Then The Girl I Was, which is getting a whole new re release and I got to go through and edit that whole thing, add new chapters in, beef it up. Um, and then I have the post apocalyptic romance. So it's four within a one year. It's a, it's too much. I won't do that again. 

Andrea: I was going to say that is an insane amount just, you know, cause I'm, I'm doing my, my first book right now and going through the very first time of figuring out what my process is and all of that.

And it like, Already overwhelms me. So the thought of also trying to keep all these other balls in the air, it's got to be a lot. Um, so when, with your, you know, popularity online, your popularity of the books, are you getting noticed more and more when you guys are on? And, and because your husband is also featured and is adorable and so funny and a lot of your content.

Um, are you guys getting recognized when you're out and about now? 

Jeneva: We have been but it's not that often. Like I've gotten recognized actually by a woman at Costco while I was trying to pick up my salmon and I felt someone's eyes on me. And I was just like, and I looked up and it was like a woman and I was like, oh, okay, that's fine.

Um, and then I like looked up again. I was like, she's still staring at me. And then she was like, I'm sorry, this is so weird, but are you Jeneva Rose? And I was like, oh, okay, good. I was like, yes, I am. And that was like crazy. Cause she was like, I was trying to go to your event and then I didn't get to go cause I had a work trip.

And I was like, well, luckily you came to Costco. Cause you've met me here now. I hang out here a lot. Um, I had it there. I got recognized at the San Diego zoo, which was so random. Um, Obviously, if I go to like a bookstore that, especially if I'm signing books, then that's not really counting because they're like, what are you doing?

Right. Exactly. I would say it's been like, maybe, maybe 10 times. Um, Drew has gotten, uh, I got recognized at the airport a couple of times. Which is always like, oh my god, dang it, I look my worst at the airport. 

Andrea: Right, like you're not supposed to recognize me. I don't look like myself right now, obviously.

Jeneva: Yeah, or like, I went to a, I went to a comedy show and when I was coming out, I got recognized there and I was like, oh my god, I'm like three drinks deep, Jesus. 

Andrea: You're like, this is not the moment for me. I love that. Do you enjoy being recognized? Like, do you like it when fans come up and say hi? I don't, it's very surreal.

I 

Jeneva: don't mind it at all. I usually just get self conscious if I'm like, oh man, you know, I'm, I'm at Costco shopping. Oh, I looked, I looked nice that day because I was doing a lot of shopping that day. So I don't mind it. And I know, like, if I've ever, when I've ever seen anyone and I'm like, oh my God, I recognize them from like social media or whatever.

Like, it's, it's a really fun experience. So I, I'm always like, that's cool. I'm like, it's wild that anyone would recognize me. Drew's been recognized and he's like, Oh my God, you see, I got recognized before you did. I'm like, it's cause you're six foot three. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. Yeah. I feel like that does like definitely play a role cause I, I've got a friend, um, she, she does, you know, teacher content as well, but she's six one and I went to VidCon with her last summer.

And. Yeah. I literally, I just followed her around as she got recognized. I was the person taking all of her pictures and stuff, um, because she, she walks in and everyone immediately looks at her and they're like, it's sticker teacher. Um, so I, I do feel like height does it. Do people recognize him and say like, Oh, Hey, and then look at you and be like, Oh, Hey, that has happened.

It was out 

Jeneva: of, I wasn't signing books at the bookstore. We were just shopping there. And then someone was like, Oh my God, Drew, is your wife here? 

Andrea: And you're like, I was like, I 

Jeneva: was behind him. I was like, hi, 

Andrea: just like pop out right there. That is awesome. So, uh, one of the things that I always do is I usually get, um, questions from teachers about like advice and stuff like that.

And I know that there's a lot of teachers that are aspiring authors that have, like, feel like they have a book in them, whether it's a children's or a different type of book. Do you have any? Tips or recommendations if there is a teacher out there that's wanting to start writing on how they can start that process?

Jeneva: Well, I always say just start writing. Um, I was the first person to stand in my way telling me I couldn't do it. I didn't think I could finish a book, and then if I did finish a book, I didn't think I could get an agent. And then I just kept going and going until I just said, you know what, I, if I'm going to say no to every part of this, I'm never going to start.

So I just started writing. Um, I'm also like a very impatient person and I have ADHD, so I find everything very daunting, but I read a book and I love this book. I, it's packed away. Um, but it's called Bird by Bird by Anne Lamont. I don't know if you've ever read that book. I don't think I have. It helps with anything, not only writing, um, but it's about basically looking at any big project.

And in there, she describes it as Her brother having this huge bird project that was due at the end of the school year and that he didn't start on and it's like take it bird by bird. Um, but it's a really, really great book that helped me put things in perspective where I was like, I don't have to think of this as filling 300 to 400 pages.

I have to think of this as Chapter by chapter, paragraph by paragraph, sentence by sentence, word by word, and as long as I keep chipping away, I'll eventually have a completed novel. Um, so that really helped. And then, also just, um, read a lot, because I think reading a lot also inspires you to write, and you learn so much when you read.

So, those are probably my biggest things, is don't stand in your own way. Read craft books. I have, I also loved Stephen King's, um, On Writing memoir. Half of that book is like about his life, and the other half is about his writing process, and I found the whole thing very inspiring. Um, find things that inspire you, and then don't write when you want to write, because if I wrote when only I wanted to write, I would never write a book.

You kind of have to force yourself to write, and you can't edit a blank page, that's a very cliche thing, but it's true. Um, so just find, find a way to get yourself in front of your computer and just start, however that may be. That's, you can do it, I'm telling you, I think everyone, I do think everyone has at least one story in them.

And. If they, whether it's for themselves, like my first book I wrote was for me and it was to work through grief. Now that was the girl I was and ended up getting published, um, while I self published it. Now it's going to be traditionally published. Write for yourself first. 

Andrea: That is, that's great advice. I love that.

Um, so before I let you go, is there anything in particular, I mean, we kind of, we went over there's the re release of The Perfect Marriage and you've got The Perfect Divorce coming out. Um, are you going to be doing any events, any touring or anything like that in the coming year? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 

Jeneva: Um, I will be doing a tour for The Perfect Divorce.

I have an event for The Perfect Marriage, but this will be aired after that. Otherwise, I say, like, follow me on my social media, um, if you, uh, subscribe to my newsletter, I try to update there, so you'll find out if I'm coming to a city near you. Do not worry, I will not spam you. I do the opposite of spamming, I send, I send nothing, so.

Gotcha. Perfect. Look at my updates there. 

Andrea: And your social media on TikTok and Instagram is JenevaRoseAuthor? Yes. All right. Perfect. Well, thank you again, Jeneva, for coming on. I really appreciate it. This was so fun. This was fun. Thank you so much for having me. Of course. All right, guys, we'll be right back.

Welcome back to those who can't do, um, I get, I just nerd out guys, obviously so much when I get to talk to authors, especially when it's authors of books that I've genuinely enjoyed and really, really love. Jeneva Rose's books and I'm so excited for the patreon We are gonna be doing a live the last Thursday of the month for our patrons patrons patreons I don't know why I said it like that for our patrons And I'm just I'm so excited for that.

We're gonna be doing some So, there's some read aloud stuff that goes out on the Patreon feed as well, and Denver and I are gonna have our two extra episodes that come out just for Patrons. So if you are not yet a Patron, make sure that you click the link in our show notes and sign up. And it'll also be like linked on my socials and, and all the various places.

Um, if you have thoughts about what we chatted about today, um, or you have suggestions on who you would like to have come on next, you can reach us, Andrea at human content. com or the human content podcast peeps at human content pods. And thank you to those of you who have left reviews. I really appreciate it.

It honestly makes my day, um, over on Apple podcasts, I got a review from me at 6593, which is a very. Interesting name. I always wonder how people come up with their names with that stuff. Um, but it was a five star review that said a must listen for all teachers. Fantastic pod. She shows the insanity that is the classroom without being an old curmudgeonly bitter teacher.

And parenthetically, she included like me or he, um, in all seriousness, it makes me laugh and gives me hope to keep on keeping on. Check out the pod and her Instagram page. So thank you so much. Um, I truly appreciate it, um, when you guys leave those wonderful reviews. And if you want to catch the full video episodes, they are up every single week on YouTube at Educator Andrea.

And that way you can see the beautiful, uh, blood covered blanket that I was covered in at the beginning of my interview with Jeneva. Um, thank you so much for listening. I'm Forgham. A very special thank you to our guest co host today, author Jeneva Rose. Our executive producers are Andrea Forkham, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke.

Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. Our recording location is the Indiana State Bi College of Education. To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's, program disclaimer, and ethics policy, and submission, verification, and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea.

com. Those who can't do is a human content production.

Thank you so much for watching. If you're like me and you're thinking, gosh, I really need more of those who can't do in my life, you can start your binging right now by clicking on that playlist button right over there. New episodes are out every Thursday, so please subscribe and join us each week on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.