The Art of Social Correction with Denver Riley

Theme: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do.

Andrea: I'm your host, Andrea Forcum, and today we have my wonderful special guest co host, Denver Riley. Denver, I have to tell you, so last time you were here, we were thankful, grateful, blessed. It was Thanksgiving. Thankful, 

Denver: grateful, blessed, full, if you catch my drift. 

Andrea: What does that mean? From our turkey. Oh, yeah.

Okay. So this is 1, 000 percent related to the turkey talk we had. Okay, great. I was thinking about 

Denver: it earlier, reminiscing. 

Andrea: Yeah. So we discussed the thermometer situation and where it would go in the arsenal. In, but not, but, but we had decided that's not right, what happens there. Right. Um, while I was on my way, way here tonight, I got a text from my husband that my 4-year-old son was sitting there.

And mind you, I thi I made chicken pot pie for dinner. So there was poultry on the menu. 

Denver: Okay. Okay. Um, 

Andrea: but my son said, what happens to the penis of a chicken before we eat it? Do we eat? And he called them the chicken peonies. 

Denver: Honestly? 

Andrea: And I was like, wow. 

Denver: Are you saying Tate and I are the same, uh, brain age?

Andrea: Yeah. Same wavelength. We are like, wavelength 

Denver: better than like, brain development. 

Andrea: Right. I wasn't going to go down that particular road. Yeah. 

Denver: Honestly, the fact that he's asking such a, uh, inquisitive question at that age, it's That's such a great question. 

Andrea: I think we figured that out, mostly. 

Denver: No, we did. He should listen to the podcast.

I'm not listening. 

Andrea: I should be like, listen to Auntie Dun Dun. 

Denver: Yeah, here, go ahead and listen to me. Um, let me tell you. 

Andrea: I mean, we figured out where, like, the digestive tract goes, but I don't know if that's a separate, like, how far apart those are. 

Denver: Well, I know that, like, people eat, like, bull penis, right? Yes, and Rocky Mountain oysters.

So, it's like, seems like a delicacy, so I'm just curious, what about the chickens? Like, where does it go? 

Andrea: I don't know. Who's enjoying that? I, well, first of all, I'm pretty sure most of the chickens that we eat are female. They're hens. I don't think we usually eat the roosters. They really wanna 

Denver: see the demise of females everywhere.

Wow. That's You're like an attack on femininity Females That is attacking me as a female. Yeah. Like, I need to stand up for my fellow chicken females. 

Andrea: Mm-Hmm. . Yes. Hence. Yeah. 

Denver: Yeah. I will tell you don't see it anymore. 

Andrea: I, so quickly. My little feminism card just gets like, put in my back pocket, like forgotten about so quickly.

I was at CrossFit today. Oh. And it was like me and a woman and a guy, and they're like a couple, they're married, so I'm just third wheeling at the CrossFit class. And we were doing story of my life. I know, right? And we were doing a workout and they're like, okay, you girls are gonna go at the same time and then he's gonna go, but if we didn't do this story is so long for no reason.

Um, like, it's so fine. I wanna hear it. Like we had to do wall balls and then burpees. Do you know what these things are? 

Denver: Yes, 

Andrea: I do. Okay, great. Yeah. Wall balls, for those of you who don't know, it's like a 10, well, it's like a 6 to 20 pound ball that you throw up and then catch in like a squat position. And we had to do the first round, we had to do 40.

And then after we did 40. We had to do 20 burpees. No, I 

Denver: can do two with like a gun to my head and I would be like, okay, 

Andrea: two. I, I was unwell. Um, but we, we would take turns. So we got to 40 by taking, we did each did like girls did 10, then he did 10, but then at the end we had to jump in. to doing the burpees.

And he, they were like, well, each round we do, we could switch off. So whoever's coming off of like the last round doesn't have to go straight into the burpees. And I was like, no, I'm not that much of a feminist. Like he's a big strong man. He can go straight from one workout to the next. I'm good. Save that for the men.

Yeah, I could. Yeah. It didn't help because then we had to go straight from the burpees into the wall balls again. It was, this was a very long story for me just to say I'm a pansy. 

Denver: Like, hell. 

Andrea: Yeah. No, it wasn't great. But I And you have 

Denver: every reason to revoke your feminist card in that moment. Thank you.

Like, sometimes you have to do it. 

Andrea: Thank you so much. I appreciate that. Um, I've also been just a health queen this week because I 

Denver: love that for you so much. I Talk about it. I'm not saying I'm better 

Andrea: than everybody else. 

Denver: Well, of course not, because you're like a public figure and 

Andrea: like, right, right, right, right.

You 

Denver: wouldn't dare like accuse people of that, but 

Andrea: I 

Denver: wouldn't. 

Andrea: But I did start taking, um, vitamins that are like liquid. Have you had, have you ever? Okay. 

Denver: Have I ever taken a vitamin? No. No. It couldn't be me. You mean the Flintstone gummies? 

Andrea: I am a child and I literally have to convince myself to take my vitamins by getting them in gummy form, usually.

Correct. Right? Yes. Because I need a little treat. I deserve it. Right. It's like a reward. Um, well this is not an ad, but the Mary Ruth's liquid vitamins, first of all, they're expensive. It's a lot. It's too much to be honest. Mary Ruth, it's too much. Um, it's like For a month of them, it's like a bottle. You get a bottle of these vitamins and then you take two tablespoons a day.

And I figured out if you put it in a shot glass, it's like two thirds of the way full. So I take a shot. So you're just like partying every 

Denver: day. 

Andrea: That is how I party every day. Um, but the gift you get when you're taking, and it's like, 60 for the bottle a month, which seems excessive to me, honestly. I think the true thing But I mean, maybe 

Denver: if you, like, calculate if you really do want to take more than three vitamins I don't know actually.

I don't know. 

Andrea: And it's supposed to help my hair grow. And so I was like, great. It's like a hair supplement plus the rest and all of that. So I mean, totally could be just snake oil type stuff, but every time I take it, I do feel like I'm better than everyone else. And I feel like that, that is the gift. That this vitamin liquid has given me.

Denver: Two, okay, so do you have a problem with taking, like, pills? Like, what is your qualm with vitamins? Is it just like there's too many to take at once? So I'll just condense in a liquid. 

Andrea: Yeah, because I was gonna try this other vitamin that was supposed to help with my hair growth and it was six pills. Like you go and that should be illegal.

I tried to do it all at once and I should be legal. You're supposed to do it six and they're like, 

Denver: we have chat GPT and you want to give me six pills to help my hair grow? How about, Hey, how about no? 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, I went to Sam's Club and I got that and then I read the back and I was like, yeah, I'm not. I'll go back.

It's fine. 

Denver: There are certain things, though, that doing them evokes like a, God, I'm just top tier human. 

Andrea: Yeah. I also, there is a local place that brews kombucha and I get like a growler of it and keep it in my fridge. So I've been drinking liquefied vitamins stuff and also kombucha. So I'm just like, You 

Denver: are that health girl.

I 

Andrea: am that health girl. And 

Denver: every, we're going to have to call the cops because they're like, They can't find your waste. And they're going to be like searching and searching and searching missing person, missing waste alert. Like, exactly. 

Andrea: I love it. 

Denver: Proud 

Andrea: of you. Thank you so much. Hey, um, so this is a teacher podcast.

Denver: Yeah. We should talk about teacher things. 

Andrea: We went off on a different. Teachers are people 

Denver: too. 

Andrea: There are people too. And we need, and also it's flu season and I'm not saying people have to get the Mary Ruth vitamins. I, I will let you know. You guys will know. I'm actually for. To be so transparent, I'm getting extensions soon, so I'm going to talk about it here, 

Denver: talk about my hair 

Andrea: vitamins, and then I'm going to have all of a sudden my hair is going to be like a Mormon, Utah wife length, and everyone's going to be like, wow, those vitamins.

Denver: And they're going to ask you to be on the show and you're going to be like, it's the vitamins. Yes. Absolutely. And I love that for you so much. 

Andrea: Thank you so much. Um, how was teaching this week? 

Denver: Teaching this week was a mix of emotion. Um, it's so hard. It's so interesting being able to identify where your moods are throughout number one, the week and the day.

And I feel like being in the position that we are right now, it's. Like in the time of year, everyone is kind of losing their mind, like including the students and me. So it's the, let's work together so we're on the same team still, but you are annoying me. And what happened to the 17 pencils I've already given you?

You know what I mean? Like little things that shouldn't be bothering me are starting to bother me. And so we actually went on a walk today. It was our wellness day. And I said, you know what? You're God forsaken pencils down. We're going outside on a walk. And I said, you're leaving your phone here and you're going to touch grass and hug a tree.

Andrea: I love it. And be one 

Denver: with nature. And I think little things like that really help. So I'm trying to sprinkle things like that in throughout the week. Yeah. Just cause it's rough out here. 

Andrea: Yeah. I know. 

Denver: Like I just, 

Andrea: I do. I was at a middle school this week and the, the kids, there were these three little middle school boys.

I was in there observing one of my students and there were these three little middle school boys that for no reason, we're just making little popping noises and like wet smacking noises in conjunction with each other. So they'd be like, For no reason. And they would do it in such a way so that the teacher would be like, she'd have her back turned and my students would be in another spot.

Denver: That's just like, that's it. See, it's just like, 

Andrea: stop. But it's just like, stop. And I'm sitting in the back so I can see these three boys and I'm also seeing them like look at each other and like start laughing and then doing. And that like seventh grade boys are. Just the wildest. What are they? 

Denver: They're scary.

It's 

Andrea: so funny because, um, do you know Mr. Lindsey Spead? He's been on, okay, so he recently, and this is, this is why everyone loves him so much because he recently posted and was like, middle schoolers are just kind. Empathetic humans. And I'm like, Phil, Philip, sir, be, be so for real right now. Was 

Denver: there a catch to that?

Like, was he like, I'm joking or was he serious? I 

Andrea: was waiting for it to like turn and it did not because he was talking about how he got his wisdom teeth removed. And so he was having trouble talking and kids were being really patient and really understanding and really supportive. And then there was like one girl that was like, you sound weird.

You should have left your teeth in your mouth, but everybody else was so sweet. And I was like, okay, so like, here's the thing. I think people are people, right? So there's going to be some good and some bad a hundred percent. But as far as like us in our lives, the great trajectory of our humanity. Is the bullying in middle school?

The middle school is like right down here at the bottom of the bell curve of empathy and human kindness. 

Denver: And that's why we discussed when we went back to teaching, well, me starting teaching at the end of COVID when COVID was ever, we were back to normal, quote unquote, those kids that missed that pivotal bottom part of the bell curve, seventh and eighth graders that are now freshmen and sophomores.

Had zero empathy and zero knowledge of how to be a human. So it's not their fault because they missed that opportunity to grow and be miserable in middle school like the rest of us. 

Andrea: Right. Um, but. But like do better. 

Denver: Do better. 

Andrea: As well. Yeah. It is this fascinating thing that with the Gen Alpha, Gen Z, like because they are empathetic In certain circumstances, particularly online, they're able to identify like, nope, we need to treat people better than that.

Right. But then on the flip side of that, like I hear the things that they say, and they're still middle schoolers, like they might be aware of their digital footprint enough to know what they should and shouldn't say publicly, video themselves saying, but at the same time, like I hear the crazy things that they say and how mean they are to each other more often than not.

It's, yeah, it's a lot. And like, I, 

Denver: that's what gets me to really like talking about this time of like teaching is just that, like, I get so tired of hearing like those negative comments or the way they speak to each other. Like it's so draining because I, I don't know. I just, in my, Any other day to day, we wouldn't hear that, but around children that are almost using that as like a status thing of like, it's cool to be mean.

Yeah. I always say, ick. Don't say that. That's 

Andrea: how you correct mean behavior is you ick. 

Denver: Yeah. I say, ick. And then I say, no, thank you, friend, to my sophomores. And they love it. 

Andrea: Fantastic. I love it. That's I, my son is four. And as I was picking him up from school. What was it? Not yesterday. I think it might have been yesterday.

Um, I was picking him up and the principal was like, Hey, Andrea, um, his teacher doesn't know cause it just happened right at dismissal, but we punched one of our friends today as we were leaving. And I'm like, kid, I was like, bud, what, why did you punch him? And he said, I didn't know. that that was a bad choice and he always does his thumb down because they use visuals with the pre k okay to be like a good choice and a bad choice he's like right i didn't know it was a bad choice i'm like using visual aids while you are lying to my face is not gonna cut it my kid he 

Denver: strongly believes his own lie And it's apparent from his physical reaction of that, of the physical thumbs down.

He's 

Andrea: like, I didn't know it was a bad choice and I was like, you are a liar. You did though. You did. You did. And you gotta stop it. Yeah. So he got to draw an apology note for, I mean, he's illiterate still, uh, so I, I wrote it but I made him trace it and he also had to draw a picture of a leaf because it's full.

Oh, as 

Denver: like a, okay. An apology leaf. An apology leaf. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. Because 

Denver: he's four, so what else are we gonna do? Honey, you don't do that. We don't punch. You need to give me an essay of why you're wrong. 

Andrea: I thought about that, but one of the things that he's been saying lately, You would. That he's been saying lately that I think is maybe the cutest thing, he and my daughter both say it, is they say, Was that kindful?

So instead of saying kind or like, it's the cutest thing. I never want them to say it right. I'm using that word. Yeah. Like, was that a kindful? 

Denver: It's 

Andrea: so 

Denver: cute. It's the cutest. Like melts my heart. 

Andrea: I know. Yeah. It is interesting because like we said, some of, okay, COVID 2020, those are now the seniors who would have been in eighth grade?

They're 

Denver: gone. 

Andrea: No, the eighth, who, who would have been, okay, let's say seventh grade during COVID. Right, so four years ago they 

Denver: were in, this is math. Well okay, this is, not us sitting here trying to remove, four years, we've already disrespected history, now we're disrespecting math, like I'm like this, I'm like one, two, three, counting on my fingers.

What are you counting back? 2024 to 2020. Okay, they were in seventh, they were in seventh 

Andrea: grade in 2020, 2021 they were in eighth grade, 2022 ninth, 2023. 11. So they're juniors. How are our juniors doing this year? Cause you, you've worked with them. 

Denver: So the juniors this year were my freshmen, my first year teaching.

Andrea: Okay. 

Denver: And I loved those little heads. I forgot you could believe me. I loved them because they were so, they kept their innocence. Like I think because they still had sixth grade. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: I think the kids that got the most screwed over were the seniors that graduated last year. 

Andrea: Okay. 

Denver: Cause they were, those were the ones that we were experiencing a lot of empathy, a lot of apathy.

So they went into COVID basically all of middle school. 

Andrea: Yeah. And it was not good. 

Denver: It was not good. So I, I have a soft spot for those juniors because some of them I had two years in a row. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And I, you know, 

Andrea: yeah, 

Denver: I, 

Andrea: I just wonder, have you, I've seen a take online several times is like the value of bullying is like it creates social correction.

Right. And I, I feel like my mom is a big, big believer in this, which is so funny because I remember her crying because I would get bullied because she was, it would, it would break her heart when I got bullied in middle school. Right? A 

Denver: hundred percent. 

Andrea: But, um, when my mom was, she was, gosh, they've done so much travel, they are living their best lives.

My dad just retired. Yeah, living, living the life. Love, love, love. One of the places they went, I want to say it was Australia, which is weird to me because I'm, it's camels, which I don't think about camels in Australia. But they weren't in Egypt. I'm 99 percent sure it was Australia where they were. And one of the things that they said is because my parents went on a camel ride and the guide was like, do you think that the camels you're riding were wild or they were bred in captivity?

And my mom was like, well, I would guess they were bred in captivity. And he's like, no, he's like, actually camels that were bred in captivity. Don't have the social correction of wild camels, so they actually have worse attitudes. And because of the lack of correction they receive from their peers, they're actually worse behaved because no one has like, they'll go up and fight, they'll kick because it's against people.

And they don't have another wild camel to be like, we don't do that. To be like, that's not how this goes. And like, I, It's, 

Denver: it's a horrible thing 

Andrea: to think. 

Denver: You can say it, and I know where you're going with this. 

Andrea: But like, at a certain point, social correction does serve a bit of a purpose for kids, did for me.

I'll speak in my own experience, like, I can 100 percent tell you my sense of humor has a lot to do with the fact that, like, I didn't look like Britney Spears in 8th grade, like some of the other girls. And so We weren't 

Denver: pretty enough, so we had to be funny. Yes. And I do. We've had this conversation with all of 

Andrea: us.

Well, I do wonder, like for those girls who were so beautiful for such a long time, how did it, how did it work out? Are they, are they okay? Did they have to develop, can you imagine developing a personality all the way in your twenties? No, I 

Denver: can't. Cause I've had it right out of the womb. I don't know. We're just blessed like that.

But I did see, uh. I did see a video of a girl kind of arguing that other side of like, I've been, 

Andrea: I'm gonna 

Denver: butcher it, but yeah, of like, I've been told my whole life how pretty I am. You're so pretty. You're so pretty. And her almost like, you're so pretty. I think stating like it's devaluing all my other qualities of like, yeah, you're just going to see me as like, you're so pretty.

You don't need to be good at that. You don't need when she's like, wait, what? Right. But I kind of should be, but it kind of, right. So yeah, I can't imagine having to develop a personality over 21. 

Andrea: Yeah, and I wouldn't, if I looked, you know, if I was like a 12, I would be like, well, I'm done. I'm done with my personal development.

If I 

Denver: was Margot Robbie, I would be doing everything under the sun. I would be a monster. We are 12s. Don't talk about us like that. Obviously. Yeah, but that came later. It's hard being this pretty and funny. Like, it's just so 

Andrea: Um, I remember there was this girl, she was a neighbor of mine when I was in middle school and I remember being really sad and like down on myself and my looks.

And she was like, yeah, but Andrea, you know, it's like really hard when you're pretty because then all these boys like really like you and you know, sometimes that can be very stressful too. And I was like, you're so right. Your life must be really hard. 

Denver: You're so right and I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.

I believed it though. 

Andrea: Like I had no, like I wasn't mocking her. I was like, wow, you're so right. You're so right. And she was just like trolling me. I'm glad no one likes 

Denver: me. 

Andrea: I'm like, thank God. 

Denver: Thank God I'm ugly. You're right. Thanks. No, but Keep all these boys out of here. Wasting my time. They're not good anyways.

But there is, we can all agree and we can all stop pretending like it's not true that bullying is sometimes, no, I'm not going to say that. Let's clip it. I'm not going to finish my sentence. Yeah, I was going to say, don't clip it and make me look like a crazy person. The correction of, of behavior by your peers I think is important.

Andrea: Yeah, social correction. Correct. Is I think what we could, social correction I think is a natural thing that we learn, like okay we can't do that. Camels do it. The camels, the lesson of the camels. 

Denver: Are they notorious for being like intelligent creatures? I have 

Andrea: no idea, I just know that. 

Denver: That's very wise of them to do.

I would love to talk to a camel. I don't 

Andrea: think it's a wisdom situation. I think it's like, if a camel's eating some other camel's food and a camel gets kicked in the face, yeah, that's a lesson. Yeah. It's a lesson that gets learned. Um, speak. So I was thinking this week about different things that I say.

Yeah. As a professor and things I hear teachers say that I know what they mean and the students might. Right. No? But there's like the double speak. I think some 

Denver: could be. 

Andrea: Right. Probably depending on, on the student and their emotional intelligence and all of that. But I asked. Yes. Exactly. So, I asked you to come up with a list of different things that you say or that teachers say that is specific to, uh.

Like teachers, when you're trying to kind of maybe pull some punches, perhaps, um, right before we jump into that, we are going to actually take a break. So we will be right back. Yeah. It'll be right back.

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Andrea: Welcome back to those who can't do. All right, Denver. Yes. What? I, I think the best way to do this is you can say the, the statement that you say to a student and I will try and translate for what, what that would be. 

Denver: Can this be me to a student and then me talking about a student, me talking to other teachers, like anything?

Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. So like you can give a, give it a little context and then tell me what the phrase is that you say about or to the student. 

Denver: Okay. All right. So on the topic, just of what we were talking about off the record. The podcast of talking to parents about their student, um, one that I for sure heard and that I like to say is they have a great personality and they get along with everyone.

Andrea: My translation of that would be this kid never shuts up. 

Denver: 100%. Ever. They are a notorious yapper and they love to just chat it up. It doesn't matter where I put them in the room. They will talk to the plant and be its best friend. And I can't catch a break. 

Andrea: Yeah, I've had that almost verbatim conversation before.

Denver: I love those kids though, because that was me. I do. And that 

Andrea: honestly, have you ever had a class where you didn't have a yapper? It was just a bunch of studious, silent children. 

Denver: I talk to the wall. I turn and I'll talk to an inanimate object and be like, You want to chime in? Because nothing's happening. I do it.

Andrea: Yeah. It's not, it's not my favorite, to be honest. I like, I like having a class of yappers. Nothing gets done, but it is a lot of fun. Lots of good memories. Correct. Correct. If I'm talking to a student and have asked a class question and a student answers and I say, that is a unique perspective.

Denver: Okay. That's my interpretation of that is either they're sharing an answer that as they know has nothing to do with them. The at hand conversation where it is so unhingely controversial that the rest of the class is like Are you gonna do something about this? Like that's crazy. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. That's a thousand percent.

I think that's maybe what I said when I had a student who was in class and he started defending the Ku Klux Klan. And I was like, Oh, 

Denver: we're going to have to not do that. Like trying to go through my 

Andrea: brain of like, okay, I got to correct it. What if? Like, can I just, like, how do I shut that down? And I think I said, that's a unique perspective.

And then he kept pushing. And I was like, yeah, we're not defending the Klan in here. That's not what today is. And we 

Denver: just moved on. This isn't a class for that. Okay. I like to say this to students, um, and I can't give you too much context because it'll give it away. Did you get lost? Or did you, are you okay?

Do you need to go to the nurse? 

Andrea: Um, I would say that's when a student has been gone for such a long time after going to the bathroom. Like, they were vaping. Specifically the 

Denver: bathroom. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: Some type of paraphernalia was involved because I say, did you all of a sudden get some allergies because your eyes are really red and puffy, do you need to go to the nurse?

And that throws them off and they're like, what? Yeah. 

Andrea: And then they're not sure, am I just paranoid right now, for some reason, or The 

Denver: weed in you is convincing you that I know everything about what's going on. 

Andrea: Which, like, gummies exist now, why are they still smoking? You know what, my 

Denver: thing is, it's just controversial, smoke all the weed you want after school.

It's 

Andrea: illegal. I don't know. You know what? That is a unique perspective, Denver. Thank you so much for that insight. 

Um, 

it's illegal for their age. They're teenagers. Okay. That's for adults that can do that, but not, yes, teenagers cannot. They're not allowed to do drugs is like as a rule generally. 

Denver: Okay. I, I did know that.

No, I did. And I will remember that. Good. Perfect. All right. 

Andrea: Um, is it my turn? 

Denver: Yeah, it's your turn. 

Andrea: Okay. Um, somebody, we're in class and a student asks a question and I say, that is a great question. What does everyone else think? 

Denver: Ooh. Okay. Is this your way of not having to answer the question? Yeah. Or like, You don't know the answer?

Andrea: There it is. Yeah. Okay. Thousand percent yes. 

Denver: That's what I do with like spelling of like, that's such a good question. Go ahead and open googly, you know googly, and look it up. 

Andrea: Our friend googly, uh, can spell it is such 

Denver: a good one. 

Andrea: Yeah, that's a great question. What does, what do you guys think? And I'll like look to the smartest kid in class and be like, What's the answer?

It's so bad. Like, especially when this happened most often for me when we were doing a novel study, and they would ask something really, really specific about the book, and I'm like, I don't, I don't, and who also, who cares? Like, I don't know. It's, it's 

Denver: just the whole thing of also like, is that a relevant question?

Andrea: Right. Like, how, why do we need to know the answer to this? My husband's a high school English teacher, actually, he, so that students couldn't read Sparknotes because, Amber, do you know what Sparknotes are? 

Denver: Um, me and Sparknotes are best friends, I tell my students all the time, I didn't read one full book at school and I used Sparknotes.

Andrea: Okay, great, because I wasn't sure generationally if that would have, because now they don't Like, there's like a website, but they didn't have like the book, right? Yeah. No, 

Denver: we had spark notes as 

Andrea: well. Yeah. Those beautiful little blue books. Yeah. And so what my husband's English teacher would do to avoid students just reading that, he would ask hyper specific chapter questions.

Like you would do the reading and he would be like, okay, what is this? And I will say it is crazy because my husband to this day. Knows the name. Wow. Stop. Uh, the bar that Pip's Uncle Dra, or No. Brother-in-Law was at in great expectations. He knows the name of it. 

Denver: Have you read Great 

Andrea: Expectations? It's Dickens.

No, 

Denver: surely have not. Oh, okay. No, I have not. 

Andrea: Yeah. Um, I actually really like Charles Dickens. I think he's, he's a funny, silly, goofy guy. I have one of his 

Denver: anthologies somewhere that you gave me, I think. 

Andrea: Why would I give you that? I did not. You had it in your classroom. Oh, yeah. Okay. I was like, why would I gift?

Yes. 

Denver: Yeah. Yes. 

Andrea: Um, no, you're right. I definitely did pass that on to you. I was like, why would I give that to you as a gift? No, that was me like offloading my stuff when I was like, I'm not moving with this. Yeah. It was a classroom donation. We'll say. Um, it was the three jolly bargemen in case you ever needed to know that you're on Jeopardy.

Denver: Okay. There you go. That will be the winning Jeopardy question. 

Andrea: Yeah. Obviously. What did you say? Three Jolly Bargemen. I don't know if the setup for that is right. I don't know who was drinking at Three Jolly Bargemen. I want to say it was Pip's brother in law. 

Denver: Hey, I believe you. 

Andrea: You know who would know? My husband, because he has locked that memory down.

Caller number one. Yeah. I often think that we need to call. I actually told him the other day when we were, he should do a call in. We were doing a Thanksgiving episode and I was like, I am, we're gonna be doing some quizzes. We're gonna be a, answering some questions. He might be called upon. And I was like, can I, can I phone a friend if I need to?

And he's like, I sure if you wanna call me. So he would. In fact, that's a really 

Denver: good one. 

Andrea: I love that. Oh no, he's in the middle of bedtime routine. I actually was thinking like it would be funny to FaceTime her and see. I forget 

Denver: the time difference. 

Andrea: Yeah. My, my children are being sedated currently. Not medically.

Just, you know, read, read stories. 

Denver: We know a lot about you and how you treat your children. That's interesting. 

Andrea: Yeah. Well, I mean, I'm not giving them drugs as long as they're not at school. Like some 

Denver: other teachers. Right. Who in the hell would do that? 

Andrea: Um, do you have another thing you say to students? I do.

Denver: Uh, that will be graded by this Friday. 

Andrea: No, it won't. 

Denver: No, it will not. 

Andrea: It might get thrown away. In fact, it 

Denver: actually probably won't even be graded ever. 

Andrea: You probably don't know where it is. It's either going to get deleted out of the grade book or everybody's getting full credit. 

Denver: Hundred percent. And they're always like, okay, cool.

Thanks. There's that one kid that's like, Hey, so, um, when is that going to be graded? Um, I will get to it. It's been four months. I'll get to it. 

Andrea: You know, too, that that kid who's following up and being like, Hey, how come you haven't graded yet? You know what that kid's not? Kid's not the yapper. So you're, you're bugging me about my work and you're also not going to yap.

And I, 

Denver: I need you to have at least 20 percent uh, 

Andrea: yap ability. 

Denver: Yap ability. 

Andrea: Mm hmm. That makes sense. I feel like 20 percent is fair because that's enough that they can still get work done. 

Denver: That's your contribution. And then focus. 

Andrea: Yeah, do you, do you ever have those kids that are just such motivated learners that they get frustrated by your yapping?

Like you're like, how was everybody's weekend? And they're staring at you and judging you like, I'm funny. I'm sorry. So your premise for this is that you don't have any students judging you for your yapping because you are so entertaining and I, at a lesser level of entertaining. Have students that are frustrated by me, 

Denver: is 

Andrea: what you're saying.

Denver: I think we in a generation come by that one student that hates everything and everyone because all they care about is getting into Yale and they're in the eighth grade. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And it's like, babe, you can laugh. We can have some fun time. 

Andrea: Yeah. We can have, we can have good times sometimes too. 

Denver: School can be enjoyable too.

Andrea: Yeah, I've had a couple where I would have kids that would be like, can we just, can we just do that? I'm like, listen, I'm 

Denver: so sensitive. I'd be like, so you hate me. So you hate me. I 

Andrea: get like, I'm like, listen, classroom culture is important, 

Denver: right? 

Andrea: Classroom culture is important and it is important. Can you imagine what that would do to the classroom culture?

It would make you uncomfortable. Me 

Denver: uncomfortable. We don't want it. 

Andrea: You don't want that to happen. So they 

Denver: do. Let 

Andrea: me tell you, teaching college is a whole different trip because all of them are paying like either their parents dollars or their dollars. So when you assign something, unlike, you know, So, another thing, working at Indiana State, one of the great things is that I have very small class sizes.

So, I have, yeah, like I have, the biggest class size I've had so far is this semester with 22 students. The smallest was like 11 students. 

Denver: Oh my god. 

Andrea: Right. And so, unlike at like, IU are these massive universes where you're talking to a whole auditorium when you're teaching and no one expects any individualized feedback.

I am with 22 students who I see three times a week. I have no excuse to not give phenomenal detailed feedback. You know 

Denver: what? That's a very good point. 

Andrea: And let me tell you with my spicy brain, I hate grading so much and it has not You know what? 

Denver: I just, they need, talk about a vitamin, give me a vitamin for that.

I have some, sometimes, fix me. I hate it sometimes. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: Of like, you did great, but then that defeats the purpose of like. 

Andrea: You're supposed to give like valuable feedback. And right now I'm grading 

Denver: these 

Andrea: giant papers they have to do. And I have to give them feedback. And I've been really good so far. Thank you.

so much. Thank you so much. Because we are, I think a little over halfway through their field experience. They have a deadline each week. So. For this, I'm having to go through and read the 22 papers and give them feedback on a rubric and suggestions on how to fix it each week and it's not Each week? Yeah.

Each week, ma'am? Yeah. But like, let's also keep in mind that my job is so much more relaxed because I literally have Okay. Normally, I have classes three days a week. When they're in field, I'm at the schools with them. So I'm not actually preparing lesson plans. At all, during this time for them, all I have to do is grade, so I have no excuse, like beyond no excuse.

And I've discovered that It still 

Denver: doesn't make it any less hard, but Yeah. 

Andrea: Grading is just not my favorite thing, and it's the ADHD brain thing I think a lot, and I literally forget it exists if I don't write it in my planner. 

Denver: Yeah. I, I've made so many Promises to my students about when things will be get graded, that I deserve, they deserve like a pizza party or something.

Cause I just feel so bad. My kid, do you guys just want to eat pizza? And then you'll forgive me for not grading this from literally two months ago. 

Andrea: Yeah. It just gets, it got filed and 

Denver: eventually, 

Andrea: or it won't, who's to say? Well, and let's be so clear. The school you work at, you have class sizes. That's around 40 each.

Denver: Right. My, my average number is like 37. 

Andrea: And you are teaching five classes a day. 

Denver: In a row. In a row. Because my prep is at the end of the day. Oh my God. Everything's great. So, no, everything is great. Yeah. And 

Andrea: I 

Denver: am fine. See? 

Andrea: And, well, and that's the crazy thing. Like when people get so mad. Uh, like be mad at me if I don't grade because I deserve it because I, my response.

Okay. Yes. Like a hundred percent be mad at me. But when I was, I have no apologies for the lack of grading I did when I was teaching the load that you're teaching like 200 students. And then I, there would be people on the internet that I would be like, yeah, no, I got filed. And they're like, well, study show.

Good feedback is imperative for learning. And I'm like, studies also show that if I tried to study or if I tried to grade every single thing that I assigned to my students when I have literally my first year there, I had 200 students I saw each day. And let's say that I gave them a call. Insane. And then let's say I gave each student two things to do each day, which it's more than that.

It's always more than that. Oh my gosh. So that's 400 individual things that they're having to do each day. And let's say I just spend one singular minute on each thing giving individualized feedback. Guys, 400 minutes. 

Denver: I'm not good at math, but that's not going to happen. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: No, and I've been really conscious every day.

No, I've been really conscious of leaving work at work and going home, and that means. I'm not grading. I'm just not. 

Andrea: Good. 

Denver: Because I'm tired and I'm not getting paid for it. Okay. How about that? 

Andrea: I love it. I love it. Um, I had one that was very similar to yours. Uh, well, no, it was like the same thing. It was like, I'll get to the, I'll like the late work one.

Denver: Do you 

Andrea: have another one? 

Denver: No, I think that was my last one. 

Andrea: Okay. 

Denver: I'm very, because I'm very Gen Z. I match their Gen Z, so I like to say like, it's giving, I have 100 percent in this class. So your behavior is not matching what your grade actually is. Thank you. Yeah. 

Andrea: I love it. Um, so I have a video that I want us to watch and I want us to psychoanalyze me a little bit.

You? 

Mm hmm. 

It's not a video of me, but we're going to watch this video. Screen we're seeing before we even watch this video, it's this lovely woman with beautiful blonde hair. 

Denver: Adorable. 

Andrea: Adorable. It says, unfortunately, I am that extra teacher that's going to make memories with their students and she is dressed.

I was a scarecrow. I need to fix my face. Okay. Okay. Great. All right. You can 

TikTok: have whatever you like. I said you can have whatever you like. Dressed as Elsa. Yeah. See somebody's problem. Somebody's goodbye. Like a butterfly. Somebody's last call number that they can't find. Somebody's busy. Making hats

glow day

day. 

Denver: Sorry, is this like a positive thing or a negative thing that we're gonna talk about? Cause I'm sorry for my face. I was gonna 

Andrea: psychoanalyze me. Oh, okay. So that whole video, just how would you describe what you just witnessed by that teacher? 

Denver: I would describe if you walked into Michaels and The employees were all teachers and they used every single craft they could find and made it everything you can think of for students personalized cups, balloon arches, yummy snacks, clothing for spirit days, bright colors and fun and like you would read in like a book.

Andrea: Yeah. Like I want to be in her class. I want my child in her class. Right. Hundred percent. I want my child to be in that woman's class. Like, fun, 

Denver: fun, fun, fun. 

Andrea: So fun. So why is it watching that you hate it? That I hate it. Why am I such a hater? Why? You wanna 

Denver: know? Why? Because I'm also with you. So we're both, it's the why are the wine in this conversation, and I'll tell you why.

It's her phrase of I'll be the one making memories with my students. 

Andrea: Is that what it is? Is it the tone of the beginning? 

Denver: It's memories, it's the tone of the beginning of you, I feel like it's being measured. The fun scale is being measured by quantity and not quality 

Andrea: because 

Denver: my students and I had a great memory time going on a walk today and I just don't have the, the time or money or energy to make them customize cricket water bottles that they can drink to school.

Andrea: Yeah. No, I think, I think this is a quintessential difference between like the, the K through sixth grade. Yeah. What 

Denver: grade is this? 

Andrea: Oh, for sure, for sure elementary. Like that just gave elementary to the nth degree. Like we would get roasted if we show up. I'm sorry. I have no reason to be such a hater though because like I true like I look at that and I'm like truly she's so clearly is putting everything in.

Like, she is full send. Right. And I have so much respect for that. And she clearly really enjoys it. And I just, I Well, if I 

Denver: wanted to do that, I would work at the Y. I'd go make a summer camp. We're at school. This is supposed to be about why I'm such a hater. And I'm like, Denver, don't be such a hater. I don't know.

What, what is it bringing up for you? 

Andrea: Well, what does it bring up for you? Because you were way angrier than me. 

Denver: I don't know. It's just, like, when does the learning happen? Who has time to do that? I think I just threw it off because, no, because the time that I, I don't have time to do that. And you know what?

I really like to. 

Andrea: Yeah, I think it's jealousy a little bit. Like, for me, I think I'm a little jealous. Number one, she's so cute. Like, every, like, I don't have the energy to. To literally put one singular non themed outfit together to just go to work every day and be like, wow, I am feeling myself, you know, like I don't even have that.

And 

she, she's doing it on theme and then transforming her classroom into this beautiful learning environment on themes and all of that. And I'm just like, It makes me feel less, I think. 

Denver: Okay. Which you're not. Okay. And you know that the kids would be like, Hmm, you're fit is eating. Like that's their favorite thing to say of just like, okay.

I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm going to go back to how I'm feeling and I want you to see if you also agree. I think seeing that felt like, you know, when you go to someone's, okay. Maybe not now because we're adults. You go to someone's birthday party and you have to talk to people that you don't know and it's like the environment and everyone's having so much fun and it's like I have to be on.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: It's giving me anxiety that I have to be on on those days because you can't have a beautiful balloon arch and then just be like, okay, um, if you guys could go ahead and fill out this worksheet and then turn it in when you're done. Yeah. It's not matching up. 

Andrea: Yeah. It's I 

Denver: don't want to do that.

Andrea: Balloon arches are so much work. People put balloon arches out there on social media like it's not going to take several hours, 

Denver: days, 

Andrea: days and numb fingers and several fights. It's too much. Honestly, I think 

Denver: it is maybe just jealous of like, when are you planning for actual teaching and I don't think it does.

You want to do that for my class so I don't have to do it? 

Andrea: Yeah, literally. Like, will you please? And also, can my kid enroll in the magical, magic school bus of your classroom? Because that's what it, like, It is a magic school 

Denver: bus. 

Andrea: But it might, the face you were making when you watched it was literally the same face that I made when I watched it, where it was like, 

Denver: I think it's just so unrealistic for a majority of teachers, no matter the grade.

I think that's what's so frustrating, or just annoying, is like, Are you trying to make us feel less than because we can't do that for our students? 

Andrea: And I, you know, I, I, I don't, like, I don't know that creator specifically or anything. No hate to 

Denver: you, girl. You're so cute and lovely. Like, 

Andrea: you're like, oh yeah, this is going out there and she might hear it.

Denver: I'm so sorry. I'm sorry, but I don't regret anything I said. Saw 

Andrea: that, saw that moment in real time. Well, that is one of those like intent versus impact things too is when you, and like, I don't even want to hate on her sharing it because like, you know, when you share something you're excited about, like, Sure, like, but you are kind of opening yourself up as well to like, anytime you have an opinion about anything or do anything on the internet, there's going to be someone that feels a little threatened by it.

And in this case, it was 

Denver: me. 

Andrea: It was me. 

Denver: Right. I was threatened. 

Andrea: Apparently. 

Denver: And I think it's something new is happening to me, which I don't know if this is like, because I'm getting older and my brain is finally developing fully, but I am, it's true. It's happening. It's already 

Andrea: done, Dunbar. It's done. 25. It doesn't 

Denver: feel like it.

Andrea: It's, I think it's 25 is when your prefrontal cortex is done. Cooking like this is as good as you're ever gonna be. 

Denver: I might have to sign off early and go figure that out for myself. Okay. Sorry, I 

Andrea: interrupted. Go ahead. 

Denver: No, it's okay. The, the whole idea of social media has just been pissing me off lately of like the concept of it.

Like we, you know, we've had this conversation of just like, I just need a break from. Yeah, the, the garbage sometimes that I see, but I'm also getting into the opinion. I don't know why of like, you know, it's, it's that video is the same energy as like, let me record myself doing something nice for someone else.

It's like, can't you just talk about it? And Or not. Cause that makes it feel like it's not genuine. Like you could tiptoe into that line. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'm going to get canceled. It's fine. I don't care. 

Andrea: I could say, you know, there was a trend that, that reminds me of that. I really, I, I know that it started with good intent, but the whole, like, she deserved money.

I 

Denver: knew 

Andrea: exactly. Yeah. 

Denver: I never thought that would happen with the stealing of the money. 

Andrea: Oh, immediately I knew people were going to do that. Immediately. As soon as I saw that they're like, she deserved the purse, so I'm going to hide some money and some diapers and some formula things. I'm like, you just put it online.

If you were trying to do it just to be a genuinely kind, good person, you wouldn't have put it online because now everybody knows that if they go into the 

Denver: Exactly. Exactly. 

Andrea: Like, come on people, like just do the thing. 

Denver: Just do it and be fulfilled that way without having 5, 000 other strangers comment about how great it is.

Like, I don't want the validation from strangers because I know what I'm doing is good enough. 

Andrea: Yeah. And also, I don't have the energy to do all of that, and I'm a little pitiful. 

Denver: And also, I want that, too. What if you just came to my house and gave it to me? Yeah, what if you 

Andrea: just created a special learning environment for me in my actual home?

Would that be so hard? 

Denver: And gave me money. Wait, what? Because they were like, she deserves the purse. 

Andrea: Oh, I thought we were talking about the, I'll go back to that. Okay, got it. . 

Denver: Sorry. I want money. You're not a single mom. Oh wait, I'm not . I'm really sorry. Not that I'm aware of, right. That Well, that's 

Andrea: Impossible Denver.

Denver: I'm not a single mom yet. No, we're not putting that in. 

Andrea: We're not putting that into the universe. Let's not put that into the universe at all. Wow. Um. Okay, 

Denver: well we're haters and she's adorable and I'm just hating on it. Sorry. 'cause I don't have time. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And I'm not jealous 

Andrea: at all. I'm just gonna clip your first take of it and I'm gonna put that out there and we're gonna tag her.

We're gonna tag her specifically and then we're gonna have her both. 

Denver: We're all three. Gonna be on the podcast and she's gonna say, say it to my face and I'll have to say it. And I don't mind doing that. 

Andrea: Double down, Denver. Just keep going, digging deeper. Keep going. I'm already going to hell, so I'll see you 

Denver: there.

Andrea: Um, okay, so last time you came on, I did ask all of the people what questions they had. 

Denver: Do we have more sick freaks out there giving more weird questions? I was hoping 

Andrea: you maybe remembered one of the questions that was in there. Cause I did not write it down. I'm trying to remember cause I sent you the whole list.

Denver: You did and I was trying to sift through to see like the most unhinged cause I don't know about you. I just like to like judge and analyze freaks. 

Andrea: Yeah. Oh, can I buy you 

Denver: a pair of socks? 

Andrea: Oh yeah. Can I buy, can I, no, not, can I buy you a pair of socks? Can I buy a pair of your socks? Is what that gentleman asked for.

And my husband was like, Andrea, do it. 

Denver: No, do it. You don't even have to wear them. You just buy socks and give it to them. 

Andrea: Yeah, but what he would do with that sock. I can't live with that. It's 

Denver: none of your business.

A check is cash. 

Andrea: It's the same reason I can't do a clean OnlyFans, like, because there was like a big push on TikTok from a few people that were like, no, just like, cause I was like, if I did it, OnlyFans would be like to troll you and I would just be talking about reading a book to you. Exactly. And they're like, do it.

And I'm like, Oh, like, even if I know I'm doing nothing innocent. I would know what you're doing with The Very Innocent. 

Denver: You would set that up and it would be a link to um, what's that website where you can find like therapists near you? Like therapy. com? Like it would be that for them. And then I would say, seek help you sick freak.

Andrea: I know, like, please, go have I'm coming for everyone today, what's wrong with me? You are, I know all the OnlyFans subscribers are very upset with you right now. Are they? I might actually do, um, like a book club Patreon, because that has a very different vibe. Yeah, I'd really love that. Patreon for socks, for example.

I mean, never say never, but 

Denver: you're right. 

Andrea: For socks. That's a very good point. Yeah, not for, that's the We know what that means. Mm hmm. Yeah. Um, what did your students do this week? Anything wild and crazy? 

Denver: What did the students do? What 

Andrea: made you take them on that walk outside? What was the thing? I mean, 

Denver: I think it's just, it's the audible, ugh, every time I say we're doing something and I'm like, imagine going to school and having to learn.

Isn't that crazy, you guys? 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And so they needed to like touch grass and just kind of like, calm down, it's gonna be fine. Today, for example, we watched a poet, we watched a slam poetry, Rudy Francisco, Complainers, because we're getting into our poetry unit, our narrative unit. If you haven't seen that spoken word, it's so great.

The intelligent, great, like, thoughtful things that he had in this Poem I said, okay, turn to your neighbor, share one thing that stands out to you. In the beginning of his poem, he talks about all these people that have had like crazy things happen to them. It's a like four minute video. This kid is talking to his neighbor.

He goes, some dude got punched in the face by a kangaroo. I'm like, so that was the first part of the poem. 

Andrea: That's what stood out. Then he spent the rest of the time thinking about kangaroos. 

Denver: Not only did he say it once, he said it twice. And I was like, Oh, I heard you. He's like, I need you to 

Andrea: understand how crazy that would be to get punched in the face by a kangaroo.

Denver: I'm like, no, no, no. I get it. Um, they also, ooh, this is interesting. I know this will be out by the time this has already happened, but, uh, the Dodgers and the Yankees are in the World Series. Do you care about baseball? 

Andrea: Not even a little, but go on. 

Denver: Great. I'll continue. I made it very clear and apparent to all the staff that I am a Dodgers fan.

And so I sent an email, happy Monday with the daughter's little world series, whatever. I am getting, and I think it's from multiple people, little tiny Yankee stickers all over my class, taped on my door, put on my water bottle, sprinkled around everywhere. And, you know, the kids like to troll me. And I said, I'm, I'm, I'm rooting for the Yankees.

I said, okay, we read this same kid, actually, we read Theme for English B by Langston Hughes. 

Andrea: Love 

Denver: it. Where he mentions, you know, I, I basically his pride that he has for Harlem. Harlem is my city, you know, okay, guys, where is Harlem? The apparent Yankee fan had no idea. And I said, imagine being a Yankee fan and not knowing where Harlem is.

Embarrassing, honestly. If I were you, I'd be embarrassed. So they just, I like, I like when they don't think sometimes before they speak because it creates entertainment. And I'm like, that's so interesting. That's an interesting way to live. 

Andrea: Mm hmm. 

Denver: I love that. Speaking before you think. It's so, it's like, it's pretty cool.

Andrea: Yeah. Like, what a, what an adventurous life that you lead by, by doing that. Just. 

Denver: And in a way we're the same. 

Andrea: Some of us are. 

Denver: Yeah. Some of us. So, not you. Who's to say who? 

Andrea: Honestly. 

Denver: Oh, right. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. Okay. Before I let you go. Where can people find you? What are your social media names? All of that good stuff.

Denver: All of the social media names that I never remember, but it's keepingupwithmiss. b on Instagram and TikTok. Perfect. And come keep up with me. 

Andrea: Yeah. She's, she's keeping up over there. She's doing the things. I'm trying. I know. You've been posting. I'm proud of you. 

Denver: Thank you so much. You're welcome. I'm just trying to be, like, my favorite.

Influencer Educator Andrea. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh, thank you so much. One of my favorite videos to go back and watch is the one where I go Educator Andrea dupe. I hate it here. 

Denver: Yeah, 

Andrea: I love 

Denver: it. 

Andrea: I miss those days. I know. So good. Um, all right guys, well that is all we have for you today. So, um, thank you Denver again for coming and hanging out today.

Thank you so much. It's just, I love to giggle with you. Same. All right. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to those who can't do, um, every single time I have Denver on, I end up laughing so hard that my cheeks hurt. And I hope you guys enjoy it as much as I do. Um, and I hope you guys are writing down all of the poultry related facts that we have been presenting to you because they are important.

And if you're perhaps you can just slide that in to the conversation is. Any of the facts, I would also vet them first because I cannot confirm that any of them are actually factual. Um, if you have thoughts about what we talked about today or suggestions on who you would like to have come on, you can email us andrea at human dash content.

com. Or you can contact me at Educator Andrea, or you can contact the whole Human Content Podcast family at Human Content Pods. And thank you so much for those of you guys who have left a review. It really means the world to me. And I actually got a really kind email this week from Amanda. Which funny enough is the name that I get called if someone doesn't remember my name.

They almost always call me Amanda But this person I think actually is named Amanda and she is from Australia. She said I'm in Australia I have been in education support teachers aid disability inclusion in a primary school k 6 for nearly 10 years after being in IT Before that I've loved being in education and last year decided to start my master's of teaching secondary I did my first school placement in high school earlier this year and loved every minute of it You I'm letting you know this because I find it interesting that the more I listen to your content, whether it be on social media or on the podcast, the more confirmed and confident I am in my decision to pursue teaching.

I will be 51 when I graduate, but I'm so excited to be starting this new challenge. Thank you for sharing your perspectives with the world. That honestly made me smile so much because that is That's literally why we're doing what we're doing here. So thank you so much for sending that sweet email, Amanda, and good luck with the rest of your training.

That's super exciting. If you want to catch the full video episodes, they are up every week on YouTube at Educator Andrea. Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host, Andrea Forkham. A very special thank you to our guest co host today. Denver Riley. And our executive producers are Andrew Forkum, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke.

Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. Our recording location is Indiana State Bi College of Education. To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's program disclaimer and ethics policy and submission verification and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea.

com. Those Who Can't Do is a human content production.

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