Pep Rally, Tooth Picks, and Gen Z Teachers with Jennifer Cerda & Denver Riley

Andrea: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do. I am your host, Andrea Forcum, and today we have two of my favorite humans. We have Jennifer and Denver here, who are my wonderful humans that I taught with my last year that I taught K-12. Hi you guys. 

Jennifer: Hi! 

Andrea: What's up? 

Denver: I'm so excited. 

Andrea: And you guys are literally still in your classroom with your lovely backgrounds of, uh, what is that magic?

It's because that's like the paper that you can like write on. And it'll erase, like, it can be used multiple times. Denver apparently is unaware of this, but I think that's what you have. So 

Jennifer: I, it's the, the better than paper. 

Andrea: Yes. Yes. It's better. 

Jennifer: I think that's the brand. Like, better than paper. Yeah. Yeah.

And it's fantastic. 

Andrea: And Denver, you have, you have some in your classroom because I gave you that big black sheet. 

Denver: Oh, I'm staring at it. It's over there. It still has my handwriting on it. Of course it does. It says, welcome to English. And I, what is it being used for? 

Andrea: Nothing. Greetings. Covering up a blank wall.

Denver: No, truly. We need color even though it is black, but I put a border around it, so. That's perfect. It's great, right? Okay. I love it. 

Andrea: Yeah. So, Denver, you are in You're, how many years of teaching now? 

Denver: This is officially my third. 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. 

Denver: I know. You're not even a baby teacher anymore. Which it still feels like my first.

Well I'm not, but don't tell me that because I'm still young, so I'm still like a baby. Um, no it definitely doesn't feel, it feels simultaneously like my 17th and my first. Tracks. 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah. And Jen, you are in your ninth, 19th year. 19th year. Yeah. My 

Jennifer: 19th year, my, uh, 15th year at the school. So I actually started out here, um, and then the recession hit in 2008 and I was kind of bounced around to, uh, like a few intervention positions across the district, and then I was able to come back here.

2013. And that's when I met Denver. Yeah, crazy full circle 

Andrea: moment. How did you guys, how did you guys meet exactly? I mean, I know this. Um, 

Denver: so I was actually, she is Serda to me. I'm not calling her Jennifer because that's weird. Um, she was my AP Lang teacher when I was in school. 

Andrea: That really surprised me you were an AP Denver.

Denver: Um, can I be so honest? Me as well? No, no, no. Me too. Because one thing about me, I, I don't think I, I loved school because I loved to talk, but I was never like, I am that student of like, A you know? 

TikTok Clip: Mm 

Jennifer: hmm. 

Denver: But, 

Jennifer: But you were fine in the class. You understood what was going on. Right. Like, you did fine. She's fine.

She's a good writer. She's adequate. She did fine. I loved writing. She was fine. Yeah. She was fine. 

Andrea: What'd you get on the AP test is the real question. Let's really dig into your GPA. I think I got a 

Denver: four. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. That's good. Um, and I passed the AP stats test, which I'm like, if I can do that, I can do anything.

Honestly. Yeah. In life. Math. 

Jennifer: Yeah. 

Andrea: No. Math is still not my jam. Can't do it. No. Um, before we get into, like, real teacher stuff, we probably should talk about the important things which, uh, include, have you listened to Post Malone's new country album? 

Denver: Yes! What do we think? Yes! So I didn't know I was going to be quizzed on that.

Sorry. Sorry. Hahaha. 

Jennifer: Okay, so I haven't listened to the entire thing all the way through and, but here's the thing. I love Post Malone. Like, I was just gonna listen to anything that he does. So the few things that I have listened to, I like already. And I'm just like, I'm, I'm trying to find it. He's just so good.

There's something about his voice 

Andrea: that just 

Jennifer: is so relaxing and so nice. So I'm a fan. I'm a fan. Yeah. 

Andrea: I like it too. Denver. 

Denver: Um, short answer is no. Wow. The long answer is I haven't necessarily, I haven't like gotten into him in the way that everyone else is into him. He's such a sweet man that I know of, and I don't know him.

But I like, It's more country, right? Isn't that kind of his lane? So, you guys know. No. No. He's a rapper. No, okay, correct. Like, tattoos 

Jennifer: on his face, bro. Like, no, 

Denver: I 

Jennifer: know, but I 

Denver: think I'm I think I'm associating that because of his song, um, With The Other Eye. Oh my god. I had some what? I had some help, you know?

Andrea: No, I'm not, I'm not helping you. So, 

Jennifer: like, the, look at me. The first Spider Verse movie, like, Sunflower with Sway Lee, that song, do you remember? That's 

Denver: Post Malone and Sway Lee. Okay, so no, just let's stick with no, I haven't listened to the album, because I'm just digging a hole. No, but I'm gonna, right after this.

Uh huh, yeah, 

Andrea: you should, because what I really wanted to take from you on is if you think it's Better or worse than Beyoncé's country album? 

Denver: Oh, so Because

Andrea: I think it's way better. Yeah. 

Denver: Okay, so Because what's happened to 

Andrea: her album? Like, we've heard nothing. No, 

Denver: no, no. I'm never gonna speak badly about my queen ever. However, Renaissance, I'm permanently staying in Renaissance. Okay. Like, I'm still, you know, that was summer vibes and it was so just like fun and amazing.

And I'm not a country gal anyways, um, however, I think it was monumental, great, whatever. I listened to it fully probably like four times and that's about it. 

Andrea: Speaks loud things, because you are obviously a big fan. I'm in the hive. I'm in the bee hive. 

Denver: Right. Um, I appreciate it for what it is. It's not my favorite album of hers.

That's all I say, so that I'm not attacked. That's fair. So, 

Jennifer: I, I can't say whether one is better or not because I see them differently. Like, I came into Beyonce's album, like, it's full on art, like, beginning to end art. There's so many different things, and when you read more into how that song got made or why it got made or all these little intricacies of her life and her experience.

So for me, it's like, I, yeah, well, all, right, all of it. I think it's just, right, it's um, I think I just view that as like, just this piece of art. And I don't view Post Malone in the same way. 

Andrea: Interesting. It sounds like you're trying to justify a bad album by calling it art. No, that's 

Jennifer: disrespectful and we're not 

Denver: doing that.

Jennifer: I like Jolene. I thought her rendition of Jolene, I thought it was really good. I like a little intermission. Blackbird was awesome. 

Denver: Stunning. Chills. And I do love the Beatles. Andrew is 

Jennifer: like, okay, fine. All right. I'm 

Andrea: just, I'm just trying to start fights for no reason. Just say you hate art. No, I, I actually, I, I, I like Beyonce fine, I would say.

I do like Country. I loved that, I loved her take on Jolene. I thought that was, I know that that was like one that people either really loved or really hated. I loved it. I thought it was a great take. And she, you know, she very much did it with like the blessing of Dolly Parton and all of that. And I will say on the Dolly Parton track that she did with Post Malone, I did not love.

Um, something about the way that like their voices together, it just didn't do it for me. Yeah, and I do love Dolly Parton, but she's just, what do we, what is the way we get out of that? Um, not my favorite. 

Denver: Right. It's just not particularly my favorite. It's not my, you know 

Andrea: what it is? It's art, I think is what I would say.

Denver: Anytime. I'm gonna view it as like a piece of art. And then you follow up with, art is subjective. So that's all I have to say about that. Yeah. 

Jennifer: All right, so I'm not going to be intellectual ever again. No, you're an artist. No, no, it's art, period. Not trying to be serious anymore. 

Andrea: Okay, so you guys met because you were blessed with Denver in your classroom and now you are, are there, how many teachers are there at the school that have been there Like, long enough to, number one, have taught Denver, or been there long enough to outstay you, Jennifer?

Denver: Great question. I don't even know how many teachers are at the school, so you probably know this better than me. 

Jennifer: It's so interesting that you said that, because immediately I was like, there are so many people older than me at this school. Older, but But that's not the question. Yeah. That's not the question.

Yeah. Um, wow. So, I think that there are Three people in this department, maybe a handful, maybe a handful in each of the, oh my god, I didn't even think about that. Like, yeah, just a handful 

Andrea: school wide. Yeah, yeah, probably ten. Okay, which in a staff of what? Is it like 200? Yeah, yeah, like 220 or something like that.

Denver, we're not asking you. 

Denver: Great, 

Andrea: don't ask me any questions. 

Jennifer: These are not for your questions. Okay, you need to speak to me 

Denver: directly, like I'm an idiot. I asked about Beyonce. I'm asking you. You know the audience that you're speaking to. I'm just gonna. 

Jennifer: Oh my god. So you know how it is too. So we have 300 or 300, 3000 students, like over 200 teachers.

You know, all the little intricacies of the school, like, that is not on a new teacher's mind. Like, those things are like, what? So, as a defense of Denver in that way. 

Denver: So, I miss you. I miss being bullied by Andrea, and also I miss everyone else. Being like, she's just a child, stop. Letting 

Andrea: me just, like, beat you down and then everyone else just comes.

I need it. I'm too up 

Denver: here. I wish I was down here more. Gotta bring you down. 

Andrea: And okay, so in your time, Jen, of being there, how many principals or administrators have you had there? 

Denver: So Not you, Jen. She said Jen, 

Andrea: bro. Jen! 

Denver: I swear you said Den. I was like, you're calling me Den now? Okay, I'm gonna shut up. Just mute me.

Can you mute me? Mute me. Kick you out. Just mute me. 

Jennifer: Uh, five. 

Denver: Okay. 

Jennifer: Five. And it's crazy because There was the one principal who hired me and then he was the principal. I was here for the four years and then he was a principal for like three years after that. Then they got the next principal and then it was like four principals in four years 

TikTok Clip: before 

Jennifer: we have the principal that we have now.

Um, and man. That's tough. Just the revolving door, like having consistency and administrative staff is huge. Because when you get somebody new, every, every new principal is awesome in that they wanted to like observe. They wanted to see how things worked, you know, and take observations and ask questions.

But it's like when you're doing that every single year, like things just start to And 

Andrea: it's real tough if you have, like, three years in a row of a new principal coming in being like, this is going to be a great year, I'm so happy to be here, I can't wait to get to know each of you. And literally they're gone before they learn your name.

Yeah. Yes. Thank you so, so much. Wow. Yeah. So how do you feel like that has impacted you? Because you're department chair and all of that, and so you have had to, I feel like, serve in both officially and unofficially, like, leadership roles, like as a teacher leader. So how do you feel like having that revolving door some of the time of administrators has impacted that?

Jennifer: Uh, so I've been department chair for the last two principals. Um, and, or three, oh my gosh, three. Um, so, That first year, it was me just kind of like, all right, how do I do this? What am I going to do? And then like being intimidated about the role, because when I went in, I was also the youngest, um, department chair by years.

So all these people had been teaching longer than me. I just, they were older than me. I was the only woman. Um, then, and even also we only had at that time, I think it was one or two assistant principals who were women. So as teacher wise, I was, I was, the only woman in the room and I was the youngest by I think like 10 years.

Wow. Um, so I went in intimidated and then I realized I was like, Oh no, no, no, no. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm one of the smartest people in here right now. I mean, I'm not surprised. So I was like, so then I was like, okay, I'm, I'm not going to be intimidated, but it was scary because what I had to start doing was like really speaking out and not being I remember one time, um, I was talking and another department chair started talking over me and I was like, you will not interrupt me again because it had happened like every single time and I didn't even, it wasn't even anything I planned.

I was just kind of done and he was like, you know what, you're right. I'm so, so sorry. Like everybody was like kind and respectful. Nobody was mean. It was just one of those inherent things where. Like it was just a different dynamic. And I remember afterwards, I immediately went to the principal because it was like my first year.

It was like my fifth meeting and I was like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And he started laughing and he was like, you're fine. You're fine. You say all the things that we're thinking that we can't say. So thank you. Um, and that's where I really built the, where I started seeing Building relationships with administrators was the best thing because particularly for so long at this school, there seemed to be dislike.

dark side and right side between admin and teachers. And I didn't like it. And I was like, that's just not how you get things done. Um, and so I just, I went in with this principal. We, so I guess this helps. Um, he and his wife were my teachers when I was in high school. So that was like helpful and so like he mentored me, um, and he let me be the leader that I wanted to be.

And because I built that trust with him and with the assistant principal, when the new principal came in, they, you know, they went to that principal and it was just like, she knows what she's doing. Like, this is what they have been doing for all these years. We are here to support them. That was huge. And that was all about building relationships with, you know, administrators and, and, you know, turning to everybody else and be like, I'm not fighting them.

I'm working with them. 

Andrea: Yeah. So that was 

Jennifer: big for me. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. I. I feel like that passed into, to when I was there because I, and there were several meetings that I was in with you where there was a little bit of, a little bit of spice, not from admin, but from some other folks. And I just remember admin saying, like, we are here and we are going to, what did they say?

Assume positive intent was the phrasing. Which, I really love, just in general, when talking to admin or talking to colleagues, like don't go into it thinking, like, when somebody says that they don't like whatever, all having to grade with the same rubric or whatever, like, okay, let's assume that they have positive intent, they're not trying to be inequitable, they're not trying to like ruin the lives of these kids, like, nobody in the room is doing that, but they sometimes Like communicate that way, and you're like, that's like, that's dumb.

Theme: Like, you know, like . But 

Andrea: if you're assuming positive intent, you're, I feel like you're less likely to kind of bite back at that. Um, now if you were to talk to admin or talk to a teacher that's at a school that you, that feel like there is little to no teacher leadership, so as opposed to like official roles like assistant principal, something like that, how would you recommend.

schools do that? Because I feel like so many teachers are so burned out. They're like, I'm not doing anything else. Certainly not for free. 

Jennifer: Oh, that one's so hard. So I think that from the very first part, you just have to go in with the mindset of you are investing in your community. Um, period. Like that was always like, number one for me, I am teaching in the same community as where I live.

As where I grew up, where I went to school. I went to school in this school district, K 12. Yeah, but you went, 

Andrea: you went to the other school. I went to the other 

Jennifer: school, and I'm never going to live that down ever, ever, ever. I've been here 19 years, and everyone's like, eh, still. Um, 

Denver: so, I 

Jennifer: think, yeah, yes. Oh, I must, I have this great picture of me in Denver at a pep rally where I'm like wearing the other school's shirt and she's like staring at me like, what are you doing here?

I'm just incredible. Yes, 

Andrea: please send it. We'll put it, we'll put it on to see that 

Jennifer: being invested. You have to be invested in the community because that's what's going to help you push. Um, so, and it's really about what is your vision. And for us, the way it started here for me, and I think I would recommend is what are, what are already the communities that are built in your school?

Well, are they by department? Are they by grade level? What are those smaller communities look like? And then, Start to invest in that. And so for me, it was the English department and I became, you know, department, I became like a, a grade level team leader first. So then it's like, I'm just, I'm just the leader of the, of the ninth grade teachers.

And so, you know, how can I support the ninth grade teachers? What do we want to do as a group? And it's that constant discussion of what do we want to do as a group? What do we want the kids to be able to do? And so, Everything is backed up in, you know, current research, what to do, what's going on. Um, and then as, as so building that team, but once I became department chair, um, I was trusted with being a part of the hiring process and because the admin believed in, in my vision and because it matched with the district vision, um, it was really like, okay, who do you want?

And then I was able to bring in people and hire people that already believed in the vision that we were creating. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Jennifer: And so that was huge. That was huge. So it was getting the existing department to say, Hey, here's what we've been doing. Here's the vision that I have. What's the vision you guys have?

And then talking about what that is. Um, Our department is really, really good about having so many people that are in professional development mode always, always current best research, everyone bringing back ideas. So, um, I think that like creating the community and then it starts going out because then other people are noticing.

Yeah. Like, well, how do you do that? Like, how are you doing that? How is that happening? And then you can like start telling people, but it's not something that happened overnight. It's now 10 years. 

Andrea: Right. And on that note, Denver, you got to be in her class and now you work with her. What has it been like to see her?

As she's kind of developed as a leader. 

Denver: So I think about this all the time that she is still and forever, always my AP Lang teacher, like in my head. And I, I just remember, I'm not sure if you'll get into it. I'm sure you will. But my specific class graduating class, we were just all obsessed with her. Like she is the epitome of like.

That teacher is so amazing. So it's still that lens of like the smartest, most intelligent, classy, knowledgeable person, teacher I think I've ever met ever. But now being on the other side of like, I'm an equal, but I never felt like I wasn't equal. I understood that she was my teacher and I was a student, but I never felt like because I was a student, I was less than, like, it still feels the same of.

mentor, question mark, still learning so much. Um, I think the biggest thing is just, wow, we're like working together and like, yeah, trust me. That's crazy. Like for me, it's a side of like imposter syndrome of like, I still feel like a student to you. Not that I'm, you know, incapable. It's just, it's a, Yeah, it's an interesting thing, but I, I like wouldn't have it any other way.

I think it's just the coolest thing ever. I don't know how many people are in our position like that. I just think it's very, like, I'm very blessed for that, so. 

Andrea: And I, I worked under my, one of my high school teachers as well, who I, I was not an AP student. You will be shocked. Shocked to hear. They said there's 

Denver: not an AP student.

Wow. Your followers are going to be so disappointed. 

Andrea: Super embarrassing, honestly, because they were like, uh, there's going to be a lot of summer work. And I was like, absolutely. No. I won't be signing up. Oh yeah, the school I remember I went to a small private Christian school, and so the homework was crazy, like even I was in the honors class and the homework was insane.

Like, what? Fifteen page papers and all of that. 

Jennifer: So by the time Denver started taking AP classes, it was the college board's recommendation not to take AP classes. To do summer assignments because it was a barrier to taking the classes. Kids weren't taking the class 'cause they didn't wanna do the summer assignment.

Yeah. And so school started making decisions. That's why her face, I'm explaining her face like summer assignments, . I, I'm like, 

Denver: that is not happening. I would've not have done that if that was the case. Summer is for summering. Like what? Yeah, 

Andrea: yeah, yeah. What? This is so terrible. When I taught AP Lang, I made my students read Scarlet Letter over the summer because I was like.

I don't want to teach that, that book is garbage. Read it over summer, come back, knowing the book because I don't want to drag myself through it because this book Oh my god, I never thought 

Jennifer: about it that way. Like, that, like 

Andrea: I mean, it's 

Jennifer: kind of genius. 

Andrea: Yeah, pick 

Jennifer: the book you hate and be like 

Andrea: Go suffer this summer when you're not around me to whine.

Like, that's like 

Jennifer: teacher tip. You gotta like write that down. Like, for those of you out there still giving summer assignments, do the stuff you don't want to. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Jennifer: Genius. 

Andrea: Because I hated teaching it and I, and the school I was at, they required us to do that. So like, I started and they had been told the previous summer, like, hey, you've got to read Scarlet Letter.

And there will be two Is it because you 

Denver: wear an A on your clothes 

Andrea: Yes, that's exactly why. 

Denver: I know they're just like stitched 

Jennifer: in every shirt that you 

Andrea: have. Yeah, so. 

Jennifer: I'm sorry to interrupt just because they're going on the Scarlet Letter. Denver, were you on staff yet for Andrea's Halloween 

Denver: costume? Okay, I was gonna say that when we all decided, no, it was, um, Spirit Week dresses the name.

Oh, that's right, that's right. The first letter of your name dresses something like that. It was the costume. 

Andrea: That's right. I did dress. So, yeah, it's the Scarlet Letter. It was iconic. None of the kids got it because none of them have read the Scarlet Letter. They didn't have it 

Denver: during summer school, 

Andrea: summer 

Denver: work.

The 

Jennifer: best part of this story is that that day we had a staff meeting, and Andrea walks into the staff meeting, she's like brand new on staff with this big, like, handkerchief. So, like, there are people there that know what that is for and she's like walking around talking to people. It was great because I remember one teacher had said to me that was like, is that a scarlet letter?

I presented. I 

Andrea: presented. Remember? They had me as part of a committee. I wasn't just late. I was late. And then I presented wearing the scarlet 

Jennifer: letter. 100%. Amazing. 100 percent bold. I love it. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah. So I, but the first time I, I taught AP, we had two summer meetings too. So three weeks before school started, we had to meet and they had a research paper due on the first day of school and they had to take a test on the first day of school.

It wasn't because I was mean, it was, I was literally like looking at the calendar and I had five preps at that school by myself. So I was like, I'm going to just do whatever they did last year and I did not do it again after that. But yeah, it was insane. It was just like, 

Jennifer: uh, that, that was a whole mentality around honors and AP classes at the time, which was 

Andrea: more 

Jennifer: rigorous, right?

Just give them more. That's what rigor is. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Jennifer: So, so happy that that has changed. So I mean, for the most part. Yeah. So, 

Andrea: I Yeah, I just recently, and I don't have citations for this at this point, I was going to make a video. I know Debra's disappointed. She's like, bring the citations or don't have the conversation.

I did it in an early format, too. Like, 

Denver: that's so sad. 

Andrea: Excuse me. I'm at a university. It's APA. 

Denver: That just goes to show I belong in a public school. Okay, keep going. No, I don't have a PhD. 

Andrea: No, so I was going to make a video saying that homework is dumb, don't give homework, and so I gave a little Google because I wanted to have citations saying like homework is not backed by research, but I have such bad news for you guys.

Jennifer: Nope. Nope. I don't agree with it. I don't want to hear it. And it's 

Denver: fake. It's fake 

Jennifer: news. 

Andrea: I'm not saying, listen, this class sizes at the school y'all are at makes it impossible. You could not, you couldn't assign homework and grade it. Um,

on, on like long term outcomes on how students do in college and how students do on tests, if they are attending a class that does have assigned homework, they do better. And I was like, real upset, and I saw one citation that said that, and I started looking at a bunch of others. Um, I do wonder, is that the case, because of other, is this a correlation and not a causation?

Um, but it does make sense, too, that like, if you're doing, if you're practicing more, you're gonna get better at whatever that is. Um, but, I mean, I think equity issues are one of the things that is at the forefront of people's mind. Uh, we want to make sure that we are, you know, Providing everything that our students need to be successful, wherever they want to go, whatever it looks like at home, and all of that.

But I was really sad because I was like, doing the thing you're not supposed to do, right? Going in and being like, let me prove my point. Right. I'll show you. Let me Google, prove to you I'm right, Google machine. And then it was like, actually, and I was like, Did it say, like, 

Jennifer: extra work? Like, because I think to 

Andrea: myself It said homework.

It said Oh, interesting. Yeah, so that, I mean, additional reinforcement work. Additional assignment. 

Denver: Okay. Alright. I think that's hard, too, because we're so technology driven, I mean, it's, everything's on the Chromebooks. I know we're trying to wean away from that, but it is, like, that issue. That's, I think, that's one of the main issues.

Andrea: I think it's really interesting that you said we're trying to wean away from that because I think that that is a specific localized thing to where you guys teach and what you guys are seeing with like the early research on computers and all of that kind of stuff. And what we experienced, right, is that kids are checking out the second they open the Chromebooks.

There are still districts that. just barely got Chromebooks. And so they are still learn in that learning wave of like, oh, it's so much cheaper ultimately to not have anything printed. And so I've had quite a few teachers that are like, yeah, our district wants us to have everything digital. Like they gave us a digital textbook and that's all we have access to.

And we have no hard copy of it whatsoever. And I'm just like, don't, don't learn the lesson. That's so like, just don't. Like, we don't need to do everything online just because it does exist online. Like, I just feel like that's going to be one of those things that in ten years, it'll be like, remember when we literally were on Chromebooks every single day for six hours a day in school?

And that was horrible for our mental health, like, and no one was paying attention. And I, I feel like too, one of the problems with the homework piece, I know for one of the reasons I didn't assign it was because it was like, okay, well, I'm going to assign a writing project and send them home and then they're going to use ChatGPT and I'm going to get ChatGPT or somebody from one of y'all's classes will work with somebody from our class and then they'll write it and they're not going to do it.

And so the only way I knew they would actually do it is if I was like, take out a piece of paper and a pen and write. right in front of me. 

Denver: Correct. Take out your stone and like the little tablets. Yeah, yeah, and get to work. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. 

Jennifer: I think for me, um, cause I used to do that. Like it used to be, um, with, uh, especially with the AP classes where it's like, I just sign a reading and say the questions are due.

I used to do this when Denver was a student and it's like, then you come to school and we go over the answers, dah, dah, dah, dah. Um, and you know, and one of the things that would happen, which was. You know, a lot of the times kids would be like, let me see your paper so I can copy down the answers. Very, you know, like a handful of people were doing the work.

Never me. Correct. She was the one who was giving her papers to other people. Wow. Literally. I know. 

Andrea: I know. a shame you just like, had no values. 

Denver: Who said I still don't? Like, what are you assuming I do? Have, sorry. I need to adjust. Have, have, have, have. Have no 

Andrea: values. Got it. 

Jennifer: So for me, what I did is I. I, I stopped assigning the extra stuff.

So everything that I was doing, I still have the rigor, however, it's like, it's something that we're working on in class. that it has like multiple days before it's due. Some of it is handwritten. Some of it is, you know, is typed out, but it is forcing all of the students to think at a deeper level instead of just getting something done.

TikTok Clip: Yeah. So I 

Jennifer: feel like their homework is continuing to work on this really big assignment that I gave them a week to do. 

Andrea: Yeah. So I don't know if 

Jennifer: that's the same. Yeah, 

Andrea: I agree. And I think by virtue of. The, like, in a hypothetical environment where everyone is, like, has the exact same situation. I could see where practicing your essay at school and then going home writing a separate essay on a different prompt, like potentially, yes, like that could, that could further skills, but that's not the reality of what most schools look like.

And so that's not what our, our students are experiencing. 

Jennifer: No, especially ours are, I, I, I'm thinking just from my, my AP juniors, most of my AP students are athletes. So, they have practice after school, they have, you know, depending on the sport, one to two events, um, matches, games a week, um, and on top of that, a lot of those same athletes also have jobs.

Yeah. And they are taking multiple AP classes. And so, regardless of whether it's a sport activity or not, most of the kids in my class also have jobs. And they might have siblings that they take care of and responsibilities at home and they're taking multiple AP classes. So in my head, it was like, I don't want them, I want them to get something out of what I'm asking them to do.

Andrea: Right. 

Jennifer: And, uh, I just didn't feel like assigning more work meant that they were going to be better. 

Andrea: Yeah. Then again, 

Jennifer: just like you said, I'm making that decision for the kids in my class. Right. Yeah. 

Andrea: Yeah, which I think is the best thing that a teacher really can do. Um, we are going to take a quick break, and when we get back, we are going to talk about an administrator who made some choices this last week.

So we will, we will be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. Um, I, uh, found something the internet provided, the, the scrolly spirit. brought something to me. It is something I think we just need to watch together, and then I'm going to make Denver describe it after we watch it. So Wow! 

Denver: I'm so 

TikTok Clip: excited! Oh my god, I'm so excited.

Oh, 

Andrea: more confetti. Good. 

Denver: All right. Okay. Okay. Denver, go ahead. So what we just witnessed was, first of all, disturbing. Second of all, um,

Andrea: I even warned you that you were going to be the one. 

Denver: I want to know, first of all, before I continue my description, um, Why? 

Andrea: I know, but remember this is a podcast, right? 

Denver: Right. So there's a YouTube 

Andrea: version. They can't, they don't know what just happened. Here we go. Okay. 

Denver: So basically I'm going to paint a picture for you.

Okay. Come along with me. Let's go. We're at a pep rally. Yes. All of a sudden you hear a song start. Was that, dare I say, uh, what was the name of that song? Pony. Pony. Thank you. Yeah. Pony comes on, uh, a, an adult figure, a teacher. Was it an admin? 

Andrea: It was a principal. 

Denver: Even better. Your principal is sitting in an office rolling chair, okay?

And your mascot, which is something, is going and being a little seductive to your principal. 

TikTok Clip: Mm 

Denver: hmm. Okay, let's take it one step further. Are you still with me? Great. There's a confetti. I'm not gonna, I almost did, okay. There's a confetti cannon, um, and to resemble the excitement of said principle because of the, uh, mascot doing its thing.

It goes off and then the roles are reversed. On to the back 

Andrea: of One might say 

Denver: it 

Andrea: was shot on the back. 

Denver: Right. 

Andrea: Right. Maybe like 

Denver: Kim K esque if you're picking up what I'm putting down. And so now we're flipping spots, right? And can you just 

Andrea: like slid in that you've seen that film? 

Denver: No. Well, it was a cultural phenomenon.

How would I not have seen it? I didn't see it. 

Andrea: Let's dig into 

Denver: her drama. Anyways, sorry for interrupting. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Yeah, keep going. So then your principal gets, you know, principal gets up and now is the seducer of the mascot and is, then there's more confetti to represent more excitement of the joy.

Of a pep rally, I guess. 

Jennifer: Did you get the tagline? Did you hear his tagline? 

Andrea: No, what was it? No, I didn't. What was it? 

Jennifer: So, it's like, what happens at whatever the name of the school is, stays at whatever the name of the school is. Like, uh, what happens at Vegas stays in Vegas. What? 

Denver: What? Why? Where do you think you are, sir?

Andrea: Let's play a game. Where would that have not been inappropriate? Correct. Let's play a mascot? Yeah. Which 

Denver: one of these don't belong? 

Andrea: Well, like, still, let's, let's still keep it a mascot and let's keep it middle aged man in a rolly chair. Let's take them out of a school. Where would they in fact actually, like, people would be like, sure, of course.

Savannah Banana Game, I think, honestly. Savannah Banana Game. Savannah Banana Game. A lot of times. Savannah 

Denver: Banana Game. Yes. Or, no, I was going to say something inappropriate. You can take this out. I was going to say, like, my fantasies. Like, I don't know. Like, my brain. That man, specifically? Not that man.

You're not taking that out. Like, I have other men to replace him. Something, right. But, like, ew. Oh, yeah. No. 

Jennifer: Yeah. No, 

Denver: no, no. 

Jennifer: No. Like, I, I, I'm just thinking, like, Savannah Banana Game would like be literally it. It 

Andrea: would be perfect. Like if they put the coach or the ref or whatever. I could see that. A thousand percent.

Yeah, I 

Jennifer: mean that or really like any minor league game. Like minor league games are like, they're, they're fun. Silly, just silly goofy games. Exactly, exactly. 

Denver: Silliest geese running around. Minor league 

Jennifer: baseball, Savannah Banana. Yeah. Okay. That'd be it. That'd be it. 

Andrea: I just, I'm imagining what we would do at pep rallies, which was either completely avoid it or stand on the wall and judge.

Um, and I'm just imagining for those teachers that were at that pep rally, like, what do you even do at that point? Like, because you see students filming, you see what's, see what's occurring in front of your face. Like, And that's your principle. 

Jennifer: Yeah, so in my head immediately I saw it and I know that I would be doing this if I were standing on the side, which was, this was planned.

This was planned. Like, there's a whole like game plan to a pep rally. And there's usually a rehearsal for the 

Denver: pep rally as well, the day before, the night before. 

Jennifer: Yes! And 

Denver: so, just everything. They were like, great. And matter of fact, add more confetti, actually, to that. What? Yeah. I'm gonna hide the confetti cannon in 

Andrea: my lap.

And then after the mascot does a little twerky twerk, I'm gonna spray the confetti. I'm gonna explode. 

Jennifer: Yeah. Yeah. So that part, and then I would immediately be going, like, oh my god, they're gonna get fired. 

Denver: Yeah. Oh 

Jennifer: my god. And I would be probably staring at you guys going, are we saying the same thing? Like, who said okay to this?

I'd probably 

Denver: record too. No, I'm just kidding, everyone. But I might, 

Andrea: like I might, just to be like, I just want it to be noted, I am not participating in this. I 

Denver: am standing over here. I'm actually really shy. I'm actually shy. 

Jennifer: I just wanted to let you know, I had no idea this was happening or going on. 

Andrea: No! At what point should somebody have like stepped in and stopped it?

But you know what I feel like I feel like it's almost to that point where it's like, hey, um, guys, that was just we're gonna move on actually and do something different now because we're not gonna do. 

Jennifer: Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of, like, fun goofy things that. that you do at pep rallies. Yes. But it's like you have to like literally you're asking yourself like like the kids are always going to do something that's like over the line that they think is funny but as the adult in the room you're like okay I see why you would think that was funny however.

We're not doing that. Environment. audience, like 

Denver: whatever it might be. Phones, hello, if it's something crazy, everyone and their mother's gonna have a phone. But also I'm thinking, assuming this was put on by ASB, right? Yeah, definitely. Yeah, the ASB teacher, like, was that your idea? You know what I mean? Of like, who thought, who raised their hand and said, I have a great idea?

We're gonna sit the principal down. They should be. Talk to 

Jennifer: so apparently I that's you're absolutely right I'm bringing this up because apparently the theme of the pep rally was Las Vegas So it was like a whole theme 

Denver: so magic Mike esque but like we're not doing that It's such a bad idea. It was just, like, there were so many 

Jennifer: decisions that were made along the way, and I'm just really surprised that nobody went, maybe we shouldn't?

Let's maybe pull 

Andrea: back. Yeah. Okay, here's, here's a real important question. Is there a student in that mascot uniform? 

Theme: That! Ugh. 

Andrea: Yeah. That didn't even cross. 

Denver: Oh, my 

Andrea: mind. It didn't cross mine either until my producer Rob messaged me and was like, what if, is that a, I hope that's an adult. And I was like, oh, 

Denver: oh, that takes it to, I mean, it's all around bad.

Like 

Andrea: it better be, it better be an adult in there. It because better be an adult. Like 

Jennifer: it's the ASB director or like, like whoever it is. Right, right. Like that was the one decision that they thought about. 

Andrea: I think the steps of planning is what makes it so egregious, is like, you're right, like, they had a brainstorming session because they always do in ASB, like, hey guys, let's do this.

Oh, you know what? Vegas theme. Oh, that's great. So fun. Okay, great. Like, do we do like some sort of like casino kind of a thing? No. Strip club. 

Denver: Laughter. I know, the most inappropriate place you can find. Like, sometimes people, and cancel me and call me problematic. Maybe people shouldn't share those ideas. Do you know what I mean?

Maybe that's a 

Jennifer: good, good, good. Some thoughts can be inside thoughts, right? 

Denver: Let's learn right inside out. We learn how to not, it's just, that's wild. 

Jennifer: Yeah. I just keep like, I can't get past the, how many adults it had to pass before it was done and performed. And not one person, not only didn't think that it was inappropriate, but that it wouldn't draw attention 

Andrea: to your school.

They were, they were like, no, it's. Fine. Like, this is a high school. And of course the students are like, beyond hyped because they're kids and they're just like, having this insane behavior. And they know, like, that's why they lost their minds is because they're like, this is so out of pocket, what is happening right now.

Like, I just, I don't know. So, from what I gather, somebody, like, the report I saw is that the principal's on administrative leave pending an investigation, and I was like, what investigation? What? 

Denver: Do we need to? Yeah, what? That's the line. Because if you have 

Andrea: that kind of judgment, should you be in charge of teaching a bunch of youths?

Like, what? I, 

Denver: yeah. I think the answer is no on this one. I'll take no 

Jennifer: for 

Denver: 500, Steve. 

Jennifer: Apparently, also, it was his first year, like, as the principal of the school. 

Denver: And so, like, 

Jennifer: I didn't, I don't know if it happened this school year, I didn't, I didn't see that part, but it's like, it's August. 

Andrea: So, apparently, he had been in it.

Yeah. I just feel like, I say aww because you know how you have people that you know that are so dumb? Uh, 100%. And you, it's just, you're like, you're so, you're just, you make terrible choices. You make a rock look really 

Jennifer: smart. Like you could make, like you could 

Andrea: make, we would never say this about our students.

Never. They're all gems. Oh, yes. But other people that are not in our classroom are real dumb. And those people, I do feel bad because I'm like, you know, you're. I don't, I can't. Just like, 

Denver: no, yeah. 

Jennifer: Well, and I think it's important because right, you're going to have people that are going to be like, Oh my God, that's so stupid.

That's hilarious. What's the big deal? And I think that it's not, well, yes, it is the dancing, but I mean, we have a dance show at our school. We have pep rallies where teachers go and dance and it's hilarious and the kids love it because it's not what they expect from us. We're out there and we're dancing and they're like, Oh my God, this is hilarious.

They're doing the same dances as we are. Like, that's enough. Like, that's it. So it's not that they were dancing. It was the type of dancing and the theme of the pep rally and like, every little thing. And the confetti. 

Denver: The confetti is just what, I mean, like I said, all around bad. 

Andrea: I was like, as I was watching it, I was like, Oh, this is bad.

And then I just went, Oh, when the confetti happened, I was like, this guy's going to lose his job. And like, as he, as he should, because if he thinks that this is appropriate and a teacher is bringing a behavior to that principle and saying like, Hey, this kid was making sexual comments in class. What is this guy gonna say?

Ooh, I didn't even think about that, yeah. Right. Like, oh, was it inappropriate? Like, my guy, I saw you getting a lap dance from our school mascot, like, and your response to that was to spray confess. Nice. 

Denver: And that just makes me think of, like, the separation that I try to, I mean, try, that I do have between, like, teacher mode and, like, I'm still 20 something living my life on the weekends of feeling guilty for doing that when there's people out there just like Lap dance, Vegas, woo, like, you're in front of kids, like, at least I'm in a place where it's like 21 and up, you know what I mean?

Like, that's crazy. Denver gets her lap dances only in the 

Andrea: appropriate location. Right, I 

Denver: do it in the comfort of my own home. Well, pause, not that I do it, but I receive, 

Andrea: you know. The in home strippers are always our first member. In home strippers are You don't have to Stop talking like you know. Don't.

Stop. Yeah, okay. Stop your story. Yeah, I'll stop. You've never seen. You wouldn't know. Mysteries. The world is full of mysteries. 

Jennifer: I get what you're talking about though. I think your idea there is that you are always trying to to be a good representation of like a role model in some way and you would never do the things that you're doing on the weekend with your students and then you think what would my students think and so that's I think that's natural right like natural making sure like and for everybody listening Denver is she does not do crazy inappropriate things like it's not like it's pretty it's just the you know everything's 

Denver: legal.

Jennifer: Deborah, that's 

Andrea: such a broad, 

Jennifer: but it is no, but I think that's just like a common thought. Like I, you know, I, because I grew up in this community, my son went to school, uh, in this community. And so we ended up in a lot of places where there are, um, other students, um, I don't drink anyway, but if anybody offers me a drink, if there is a kid from the school there, I'm not drinking.

Like, I'm just, you know, I'm not doing that. I don't just because it's like, you just want to be as careful as you possibly can. Right. 

Andrea: Yeah, definitely. 

Jennifer: So bad decisions all around. 

Andrea: Bad decisions. We don't endorse. Negative two out of 

Denver: a million. So yeah. 

Andrea: Um, I had somebody on TikTok DM me. This is a student or was a student at the time.

So this, this person's DMing me about something that happened to them. When they were in school, she has epilepsy, and she had a seizure in class, and her students started playing Juice WRLD, or like, her peers started playing Juice WRLD. For those of you who don't know, Juice WRLD died from having epilepsy, right?

Was it from having epilepsy or during a seizure or something? So, so dark. On top of that, she said all of her classmates from that point on called her Little Caesars. 

Jennifer: Oh my gosh! 

Andrea: And she, she was laughing about it, guys, so it's okay. But insane. Kids are wild for that. 

Denver: That is wild. I'm not laughing because it's funny.

I'm laughing because OMG. Yes. What? Yes. 

Andrea: To me, the funny part is that. She messaged me and was like, kids are so out of, like, listen to what they did. And I'm like, I can't, I can't fathom. See, number one, it is traumatic to see somebody having a seizure. Like, so very traumatic. But she said it happened really commonly.

So I think it was probably one of those things where they were like, oh, what if we played it, like, while she was seizing. Oh my gosh, like planned. To like break the tension and have like a little dark humor and kind of stuff like that. Yeah, but I mean, she's, she's okay now, but she was just like, kids are so wild.

Like, if she was in on it, then you can be like, you know, like, kids are really wild, like all of them, right? I think she was in, she said her friends called her Little Ceasar. I would assume she would have said bullies. Wait, so this is, so the 

Denver: girl that DM'd you is the girl that has epilepsy? That had the seizures, yes.

Oh, and she was like, LOL? Yes. Okay, as long as she wasn't like, boo hoo hoo. That's 

Andrea: why I'm saying, that's, no, she wasn't like trauma dumping. She was like Kids are so crazy that, like, I had this very serious thing happening, and so my friends ended up calling me Little Caesars. 

Denver: Because don't get me wrong, talk about the separation again, 

Andrea: me and my 

Denver: friends.

Dark humor. I'm looking at both of you, too. Dark humor? Where am I? Like, hello? I can giggle at the dark humor. However, that's just, wow. 

Andrea: And a friend, a friend calling you Lil Caesars when you have epilepsy is a completely different thing than some random person. A bullying situation. Correct. Wild, but yeah, so that was the one that I got from my DMs this week.

So creative. So creative. No, so creative. Use 

Denver: that in your writing, why don't ya? 

Andrea: Always my thing, like the more creative the hijinks, the more I'm just like, do you know what you could accomplish? 

Denver: No. If you just. Anything is possible when you have a brain like yours. Anything is possible. Anything is possible.

And then they're like, we're not. 

Andrea: Doing anything. Okay, so I have a piece of advice I need you to share, and I feel like you guys are actually the perfect humans for this because somebody messaged and said, do you have any tips on how to win over a rough class period for high school? My classes are excellent so far, but one class period is a difficult thoughts.

I was going to say, I want Denver's take first. 

Denver: I think, um, as both of you know, my first couple years, I definitely had, I would say at least one. each year. Um, in the moment in time when you know, it's so difficult going in. I think my mentality was always, I'm already miserable and this is not going to be fun.

And, and it's, it's not going to get better. You know, it's easy to be in that, like, It's something to do with me as well. Like I'm doing something wrong and I'm none of the kids like me and it's kind of like a vicious cycle type of thing, but what I found, and truly, I think this comes from speaking to you guys and the rest of the team and our group of like, please help me.

Like, what advice do you have for me? And kind of like an accumulation of all the things that you all told me. I think. When it's a class like that, being as, not as honest as you can, right? Because we still want to like, have that, I'm in charge, I'm in charge! Like, listen to me, but, but being like, I need to tell you guys straight up, this is how I'm feeling, And I'm miserable.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And I know I'm not the only one and it's so selfish and it's not fair to me, to you, to anybody. Why can't we just make this enjoyable? And I love to have fun. I obviously you can tell I'm not the most serious person in the world. I love that, but we need to have the time and place. And that's always so, that's such a hard conversation, especially if you still feel like it's not going to work.

Like, and the kids are still kind of pushing. You know, those boundaries, but I think, you know, that layer of honesty of I'm not, I'm not enjoying myself. I don't want to teach right now. I'm having a bad time. And this is a party I wasn't invited that I wasn't invited to and I don't want to go. So how can we all, can you please be on my side?

I'm on your team and I want you to be on my team as well. I feel like that has helped me and it's, again, it's not going to happen the next day, and it might not happen the next week, but putting my foot down of like, we're not doing that. We're, we're just not. And if we are, I'm going to make changes. And that always made me uncomfortable, especially the first one to two years, because it is like, I want them to like me still, you know, and I want them to think I'm so fun, but you can still be fun and liked and have.

Respect and kind of like, no, I'm going to have the respect. Um, it's finding your voice of like, I have to do this. I have to grow up, but I'm going to do it. And it's just a day by day, take a deep breath, make it entertaining to have, like, this is crazy. This is crazy. Like in your head, of course, but that's what I found works for me, I think.

But again, coming from advice from all of you into one. 

Jennifer: Yeah. What worked for you when you because you've had that class, you know, like what what ultimately worked for you? What did you do? 

Denver: I think having several of those conversations of like it's a group conversation if I notice that it's Specific friends that are kind of Influencing a certain area or like the entire class kind of I remember one class last year and one of the culprits, if you will, I pulled them aside and I said, you are, you have some kind of, you know, talking them up of like, you have such a great personality.

You really do. And you're funny and I enjoy having you in class. With that being said, you are a leader, whether you know it or not, the way you behave is Other people are going to think that that's okay. And so they're going to follow suit and do that as well. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: I need you to work with me and not against me.

And look, I, I will, I'll tell them my experience in school of like the number one thing I got in trouble for was talking and kind of being like that kid. Are we surprised? No. That kid that was like, you need to take it down a notch. So being on that level of, I understand. And especially the classes at the latter half of the day.

You're tired. You're exhausted. You don't want to be here. Guess what? Same. We're in this together. Again, I need, you are a leader. Like you need to understand that. And I think for a lot of kids that Are those kids, I don't want to like put them in a bubble, but the bigger personalities, maybe they haven't heard that before of like, Oh, I'm a leader.

I thought I was just the bad kid, or I thought that I'm not capable of being anything other than, you know, I'm going to reprimand you. Um, it really changes their perspective on how they know that you see them. I, I empathize with you a thousand percent. However, I need you to work with me and kind of always checking in with either that group.

And I've had it one on one with a student. I've had it groups of students. Understanding it's never malicious. Of course there's going to be one or two that you just know they hate you and they think about ways to like kill you and you know, it's just whatever, but it's never malicious most of the time.

Majority of the time it's not malicious. So seeing their reactions when they're really confronted with me saying, I see you, I see what's, I know what you're doing, kind of humanizes me in a way that I'm thankful for. And yeah, it's not easy. You have to keep doing it. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Denver: And it's another reminder and it's another reminder.

And I always thought that being, um, louder would do something different, you know, like, okay, it's going to get it through their heads. If I like turn on my teacher voice and that's, no, I, I don't think that works for me because then I start to spiral having like, again, that real conversation of, I'm going to have to just pull you aside out, let you know, step outside for a second.

I'd like, 

Andrea: please 

Denver: let's stop. So that really did help was the, let's just have a conversation. Number one, are you okay? What's going on? Number two, please work with me, not against me. 

Andrea: Nailed it. I'm so proud of you, Debra. 

Denver: Thank you so much. I'm learning so many things every single day. Thank 

Jennifer: you. Jen, do you have anything to add?

Yeah, just kind of going along those lines. So there's a class dynamic. Every single class has a has a different dynamic. And within the class, there's the leaders slash influencers, and then you have the followers and you have the observers, right? And it's like, Perfect. You know where they are and you know what's happening.

And so for me, same thing, right? Like discussion with, with the leader, except there's a difference between the leader and the influencer. The, the leader, that's a good conversation to have with them that Denver had. Like the kid that you know, doesn't know that they have like the power that they do or how to like, you know, and you're teaching them how to like funnel it, you know, somewhere else.

And then there's the kid who's the influencer who absolutely knows. What they are doing. One hundred and ten percent. 

Andrea: I believe his name was Devin. That's her son's name 

Denver: in case anyone's 

Andrea: wondering. Right, right, 

Denver: right, right. He's smarter than everyone and he knows it. Yeah. 

Jennifer: And so this is a different conversation because I love that the leader, you're literally saying like, bro, you are a leader.

Like, like people follow you. I want you to, like in class today, I want you just to do all the things that you normally do and I want you to watch who is following you. Who would not do it on their own, but only do it because you do. Right? And then that's like that power. The influencer, there's just some like, like little like evil, like, like they know, like they know, right?

Like they 

Andrea: know which teacher to be like, I like your shoes will go off on a 20 minute tangent. Yes. Right? Yes. That 

Jennifer: kid. And so that conversation with that kid is, is normally like, look, you and I both know what you're doing. Right? And we both know that, like, you're winning right now. Yeah. You're using all the power for the evil right now.

I need you to use it for good. Right? Yeah. And I said, because really, like, They're following, you're really bothering the people that are in the class, and because like I've already set up in the beginning, like I am huge on classroom expectations and procedures. You, if, there's nobody in my class that's going, Oh, I didn't know I couldn't say that.

Oh, I didn't know I couldn't do that. Like everything is so clear. And so it just becomes like, and then what we do is we create classroom norms. 

TikTok Clip: What kind 

Jennifer: of environment do you want? And we create that. So it's not necessarily my rules, but we all agreed on this. And you're going against this, so Like a contract.

Yeah, exactly. So like, you can't, you can't, just you, you're not You're not abiding by the norms that we all created. Um, and then at the end of the day, like, I've only had to say this like once and it was when I was a newer teacher and there's just a level of respect or disrespect that comes with, with a new teacher regardless of what you're doing.

Like Denver and I could do the exact same things the exact same way, have the exact same script, but. It's just happening because of the way that we are perceived by the students age wise. Um, and I, you know, it's usually something I'll say to the students if I notice this a different group dynamic, but I tell them, I say, you need to understand that your rights end when someone else's begins and you don't have a right to disrupt the learning of anybody in this class.

I 

Andrea: love 

Jennifer: that. So that, that usually is helpful because then it also, um, for me empowers the kids who think they don't have any control over that behavior. Right? To say, like, the observers. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Jennifer: To go like, oh, I do have it right. So then it just kind of changes the dynamic. That's so good. But, I mean, that one's hard because I haven't had a class like that in a really long time.

Um, I mentioned this and I said that I, we were talking about classroom management and I was reflecting on the things that I've done earlier on in my career and then asking myself or realizing I don't really have classroom management issues anymore and trying to reflect on why that is. Um, and I would love to take All of the credit for it.

I would love to all the time. However, there's something that happened that made it so much easier with everything else, which then gave me time to develop what I wanted. It started with Denver's class. They all really liked me. I liked them. We had a great relationship. Um, and they were the cool kids on campus.

And they were like seen by everybody on campus. Everybody knew who they were. So by the very nature of them saying, SIRTA's cool. Oh, you're going to love SIRTA. You have a class, you love SIRTA. Uh, after, especially after they graduated, I started, like, kids were just coming into my class ready to love me.

And I was like, Oh, okay. So there were so many conversations that I used to have early on that I just don't at all anymore because of. what other students are telling kids about being in my class. 

Andrea: Yeah. And that's 

Jennifer: huge. 

Andrea: And I think that we should not skip over the fact that part of what they're being told by other students is like, don't mess with her.

Because Jen is both loved and feared in equal measure in a way that is inspiring. It is. 

Denver: I was just going to say it's inspirational. 

Andrea: Like, it's, it's a beautiful thing, honestly. Like, you don't know if I 

Jennifer: love you or hate you? 

Andrea: Yes, and I've had students that I'm like, man, that kid is the worst, and you're like, really?

Don't, they don't talk in my class. And I'm like, okay. 

Denver: You're like, the thing about you is Oh, great. I love that for you. Great. 

TikTok Clip: I love it. Oh, my gosh. But, I 

Jennifer: mean, on the other hand of that, one of the things that is new that's happening, because I'll have, I have 10th and 11th graders, right? And so, because our 9th and 10th grade teaching teams, all of us are friends, everybody is amazing.

Right? And all the kids, like, know that they're friends, but every single student that has you guys loves you guys. Like, you guys are their favorite teacher. So it's so funny to me, and I love it, because when I get them, like, the following year, so they're gonna be nice, but it's like, um, you're not Miss Forkham.

So I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna sit back here. Or they'll, like, talk about it. Or, well, Miss Forkham did this. Or, well, Miss B, you know, did this. And I just love it because it's one of those things where it's like, you know, like, you're their people, right? Yeah. You know, and so they're like, this is the bond that I formed with the English teacher.

I can only have one. 

Andrea: Right. 

Denver: Very, like, territorial over that, I feel. Well, I 

Andrea: have, I have really bad news for you guys, because I figured this out. I had a DM from a former student today, and they were in my sophomore class when I was there, and now they are seniors. So that means the class that's juniors right now.

For you guys. Okay. Right. I taught them. So now they're seniors. I taught them there, and now it's been, they're starting the second year that I've been gone, so that means next year is the last year there will still be students at the school that I taught. And I just thought about it. I didn't know if it was this 

Jennifer: year or next year.

It's next year because of the freshmen. Okay. Yeah, 

Andrea: because I taught a crew of freshmen, so next year will be, that group of freshmen will be seniors. That is wild. So I actually did 

Jennifer: think about that. I was thinking about that. Because my thought was Oh my god, there are going to be kids here in a little bit that don't know who Andrea is and I feel so sad for them.

It is and hang out. I'm just gonna be there. It is pretty 

Denver: sad. It is! 

Jennifer: It 

Denver: is! I actually had that thought today because I have freshmen and sophomores and I'm like, none 

Andrea: of you know. They don't know who I am. You don't even know! Well, you guys are playing my TikToks in class, right? Like you're bringing them up and like, welcome to class, we're gonna watch.

TikTok time! Educator Andrea time! Yay! Yay! Educating Andrea. It's my bellwork. 

Denver: No, it's the bellwork. Analyze this 

Jennifer: TikTok. What's the 

Denver: rhetorical situation? 

Andrea: Oh my gosh. 

Jennifer: Who is the intended audience? 

Andrea: Um, guys, before we let you go, is there anything big coming up anywhere people should be looking for you, your social media handles, if you want to share them, all that good stuff?

Denver: Go ahead, Denver, you can go first. Um, I have no per se projects. I am just going to be a 20 something year old teenager, um, but my TikTok, yay! Yeah, she's 

Andrea: got a TikTok. 

Denver: I got a, I have a TikTok, um, keepingupwithmiss. b underscore. And she's an actress. That's right. Let's talk about it. I am trying. I actually have my class tonight.

Um, I'm an aspiring actress. I always, I told my kids actually this week, um, I've always said teaching is my plan B. And so I'm just working towards my plan A. Those 

Jennifer: are the words that you used? I 

Denver: did. Plan B. Oh, let's talk about it now. You say Plan B to a class of high schoolers? That's a choice, Amber. I'm just, I'm just hearing it.

Yep. 

Jennifer: That's okay. None of them caught on. Oh, that's good. That's all right. Freshmen. Freshmen. Sophomores. Oh, love that for you. Weird. Love that for you. But, um, because I like sharing. you. 

Denver: No, it's fine. Because I hear it out loud, and now that you guys are telling me that, I'm like, that's freaking awful. Um, but I like telling the kids too, like, oh, I'm an aspiring actress, just because.

They think that's like cool and they're like, are you in any Netflix? And I'm like, no, no, no, not yet. But be nice to me because then when I am, you'll be like, I know her. Um, so I have my class tonight actually, and I'm so excited. I love it so much and it's so great and you'll see me one day and I already told you guys you'll be at my Oscar parties and we're going to have so much 

Andrea: fun.

That's right. So you guys have to follow her on social media so that you can see her rise to stardom. Yeah. It's both keeping up with 

Denver: Miss B. Yeah. Absolutely. on Instagram and TikTok. 

Andrea: What about you, Jen? 

Denver: I'm boring. No, you're not. Oh my god. Don't ever talk about my friend like that again. 

Jennifer: Um, I do have like a teacher Instagram account.

It's MissMS underscore certified. So my last name's C E R D A F I E D. And the whole point of that was I just wanted it to be like, all my students to follow it forever because it was just like, like a motivational type of thing. Like, remember, I love you type of thing. So there was no really content I was going to, I was creating.

It was just like motivational stuff or like, so that way, whenever there's doom scrolling at some point, hopefully they come across something that I said and I could like, lift them up. And I've been like, wanting, like, I've had that handle on that account open for like six years and I'm saying it out loud so that I actually go like, Regularly post on it.

You should, yeah. So, I'm saying it out loud, so I do that now. Yeah. Other than that, I'm in my, um, college football mom era, so, um, Literally, that's all I can think about, like, because I'm obsessed with my kid, just like I'm obsessed with you. So that's my project. 

Andrea: Yay. Awesome. Well, thank you guys so much for coming on today.

I love you so much and I miss you so much. I miss you too. I appreciate you guys. And we will be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. I hope you guys enjoyed my conversation with two of my very best friends. I mean you, you heard them, you heard how amazing they are and how fun it is getting to hang out with them. I had Melissa and Lauren on the podcast a couple of months ago and they were the other two pieces along with another friend Abby, who all of us would sit together and we would do our planning together.

And you can just. Can you not just imagine how hard it was to actually get stuff done? But thankfully, our fearless leader, Jen, she, like, as you heard, is so incredibly brilliant and so passionate about what she does that we would be goofing off and just being ourselves. And then she would be like, OK, guys, let's get to planning.

And everybody would just lock in because all of them are such gifted and passionate educators. And I just, I really hope for you that whether, you know, you're teaching right now or doing something else that you are lucky enough to get to work with passionate, amazing humans like that. Because honestly, I do like, I truly feel like working with them is what allowed me to be successful in so many other ways, so.

I just love them. And I also totally forgot about the Scarlet Letter thing. Um, if you have thoughts about what we talked about today or suggestions on who you want to have come on and maybe have people come back, because I would absolutely love to have my friends come back again, you can contact us, andrea at human content.

com or on Instagram or TikTok, educatorandrea. Or you can contact the Human Content Podcast family at humancontentpods. And thank you so much to those of you guys who have left a review. And if you haven't yet, could you like, just like real quick, just like slide on over there and just give a little, little tippy tap on your keyboard and leave a little review.

Um, it really means the world to me. And a special thank you to Eloise1942 on Apple who said, I love Andrea. Her hilarious Instagram post started me watching and she's great to listen to also. Thank you so much. If you want to see the full video episodes, they're up every week on YouTube. So that way, when, um, We have Denver narrating for you.

I know guys, I know. Um, you'll at least be able to see ahead of time what it is that she is describing. And that's at Educator Andrea as well on YouTube. so much for listening. I am your host, Andrea Forcum. A very special thank you to our guest co host today, Jennifer Serta and Denver Riley. Our executive producers are Andrea Forcum, Aaron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke.

Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi, and our recording location is India State Bi College of Education. To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's program disclaimer and ethics policy, and submission, verification, and licensing terms, you can go to PodcasterAndrea.com. Those Who Can't Do is a Human Content production.

Thank you so much for watching. If you're like me, and you're thinking, gosh, I really need more Those Who Can't Do in my life. You can start your binging right now by clicking on that playlist button right over there. New episodes are out every Thursday, so please subscribe and join us each week on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.