Mastering Work-Life Balance in Teaching with Natalie Ringold

Andrea: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do,

I'm Andrea Forcum, and today I have with me Natalie Ringold, and you are the founder of Always Upper Elementary. Can you talk a little bit about what that is so we have context for Kinda what you do. 

Natalie: Yeah, absolutely. So my number one goal is to provide teachers with tips, tricks, and resources that will help save them time that are actually realistic.

Um, and that are effective. So that is my number one goal. My. platform or my main platform is Instagram right now. I would love to expand other platforms in the future, but it takes a lot of time. So right now I'm mainly on Instagram and I am a TPT seller and then I also have always upper elementary. com.

Andrea: Awesome. Yeah. And what grades do you teach? 

Natalie: I taught 4th grade last year, and then this year I'm going to be teaching 3rd grade, so I'm moving down a grade. Um, and I've always taught upper elementary. That has always been my favorite age to teach, so 3rd through 6th grade has always been, uh, my thing. So that's how always upper elementary became What it is today.

Andrea: That's awesome. And you recently had a video that went like super, super viral, right? And now what was like the content of that, of that video? Yeah. So 

Natalie: in the video, um, I am talking about how if someone can't change something in 30 seconds or less about themselves, that we shouldn't be mentioning it to them.

And so I, uh, I, The context for this whole video and lesson was it was the night before the last day of school and I was thinking about, okay, how do I want to end this year? And I was kind of thinking about everything that had transpired throughout the year. It had been a lot. And so I was thinking, you know, how do I want to end?

And as I was thinking about that and reflecting on the year, I thought if I can have my 28 students walk out the door remembering this lesson of kindness, then I think I would deem this successful. And so as I was thinking about that, I was like, okay, I think tomorrow we will kick off the day with this lesson on kindness and wrap things up.

I had done it at the beginning of the year and I thought it would be a really cool way to kind of bookend the year, um, from start to finish and have it kind of be like a full circle moment and something that they can walk out the door remembering. So that was the kind of like behind the scenes, I guess, of how the reel came to be or how the video and lesson came to be.

Um, and then I went in that morning on the last day of school and recorded this lesson and it was You know, one of these lessons that I teach kind of every day as teachers, we can relate to it with like, these are lessons and things that we're doing every day, but people don't see the behind the scenes and they aren't in our classrooms.

And so I never anticipated it to blow up like this. This has been so surreal and totally unexpected. Um, but I just gave my students a message of kindness on the last day of school and it has somehow blown up. So that's 

Andrea: awesome. And like, I think it's, I don't know, I think it's really lovely and very interesting that such a, what should be kind of something we all agree on, right, like, say nice things to people.

They were like, like, the internet acted like that was a hot take, which I think is wild. 

Natalie: Yes, exactly. I mean, I thought the same thing. It seemed like a lot of people in the comments were, in the beginning, it was like, Oh, yes, everyone needs this message, and it was super positive, and all of a sudden, just like what you said, other people came in and it was like, whoa, this is a hot take, and it's really just a message of kindness.

So, in my mind, it should be so straightforward, but yeah, it is one of those controversial topics of today, apparently, so. Yeah, 

Andrea: so how do you fit in lessons like that into your curriculum? Because obviously for high school, which is all I've ever done, like, I mean, we would have some curriculum ideas that we wanted them.

Like the last year I was at the high school I was at, we were really concerned about the lack of community we were seeing because we were all coming back from the pandemic and kids were just so separated. And so one of our goals was to talk about like the importance of community, the importance of like building relationships with those around you.

Um, But we had to nest those in to the curricular blocks that we had. So we would have an argument unit, and the resources we were giving them were about, like, the impact of not having community on an individual. So how did you nest that within your curriculum as a, was it fourth grade? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. As a fourth grade teacher.

Natalie: Yeah. Well, I think that's one thing that's different about elementary. We are with our kids. It's seven hours a day, five days a week. And so I don't, we don't rotate classes. I'm with these 28 kids all day, every day. And so because of that, there are so many opportunities for weaving in these life skills and these skillsets.

SEL lessons. Our kids are interacting socially and they're definitely riding an emotional roller coaster throughout the day because they're little humans learning how to manage their emotions. And they, because of that, it provides a lot of opportunities to have these discussions and they just kind of happen naturally.

And so actually on my Instagram feed, you'll see a lot of different reels about me just having in the moment conversations with my kids about addressing behaviors or addressing big emotions or reflecting on what's happened throughout the day or, um, talked about how to manage their emotions or reset from how we have started the day and how we want to end the day.

And so we, I have those organic conversations all the time. Um, SEL in my particular school district is a whole subject itself, which I know isn't necessarily the case everywhere. Um, but Social emotional learning is, we have an entire curriculum that we follow, and then I kind of put my, my kids would call it my mis ring, it's a mis ringled special, this particular lesson that went viral, um, but I, I put in my own mis ringled twists and spins on things so that I, kind of make it even more authentic and real so that my kids really buy into it and understand how they can actually apply these skills in their, in their lives.

So it happens really organically. It's, it's interesting how that happens in elementary, but then there's also this set SEL time. So it's kind of both. 

Andrea: Yeah, so I, SEL, and for those listening who are not teachers, social emotional learning, can you give like a layman's description of how would you define, define SEL?

Because that is one, I feel like that's been a politicized word, um, and I think pretty unfairly politicized. to mean something that it has definitely it's been defined in ways that I disagree with as an educator. Um, as like I trying to use SEL in my classroom all the time. So can you kind of summarize what SEL is, especially since you do have like an actual curriculum that goes towards that?

Natalie: Yes, absolutely. Well, I think there are so many misconceptions going around too that some people wonder like what even is SEL, actually. And so that's what I try to raise awareness about, too. But I would say, so SEL, Social Emotional Learning, the S stands for social. And what I tell my kids is, you are going to interact with people for the rest of your life.

You're going to interact with people at your jobs, at school, in your homes. You're with family, with friends, in all of these different spaces. And you have to know how to socially interact with people. What are social norms? How do we handle conflict? How do we make friends? How do we join in on games or activities?

What do we do if we feel hurt by someone else? All of those things are social components of SEO. And then the emotional part, the E is how do we manage our emotions? Our emotions aren't the problem. Everybody gets angry. Everybody gets sad. Everybody goes through things that are really hard, and we have to figure out how to manage those emotions.

The emotions aren't the problem, but if you are in the red zone, or if you are very angry, and you let that get the better of you, and you go aggressive, or violent, or really hurt someone with your words, then that is a problem. So helping my students to understand that Emotions are normal. Emotions aren't the problem, it's how we react to the emotions that's important.

So social emotional learning is really learning about how to interact socially and how to reflect on your own emotions and kind of figure out how to move about the world in all the different spaces that we are in. 

Andrea: That's awesome. I think that's a great description because I've previously heard it used as like, you know, a myriad of definitions where they're saying that like teachers are trying to really force ideology down students throats and all of that kind of stuff.

And that always really confused me because when I was in my teacher prep program, SEL was not as common of like a talk point. You know, it was over 10 years ago now. And so a lot of times I would hear people talk about SEL and I'm like, You're not talking about the same thing that I'm talking about, clearly.

Exactly. And I think one of the things that is a concern, um, for a lot of people is that, you know, teachers, we can't avoid Dealing with students emotions. I think there's one, like, they, we are kind of like the paramedics on site when the kid is immediately feeling all of those things. And so we have to be equipped in some way, shape, or form to deal with, like, whatever they are dealing with emotionally at that moment.

Um, but I, I've heard from a lot of parents and a lot of people that are concerned about teachers taking it upon themselves to do things that we're not actually trained to do. Like, Acting as if we are a mental health expert with these kids. Um, so how do you think teachers can walk that line between having that, like, real balance and this is a safe place for you to feel whatever you're feeling and all of that, but not overstepping and maybe doing too much that, like, with the best of intentions and possibly causing harm?

Do you think there's a way that we can approach to avoid something like that? 

Natalie: Yeah. I think that a lot of people who have said comments to me and to other teachers that I've seen, um, comments like, oh, stick to teaching math and reading, or stick to teaching the academic subjects. What they don't realize is they're kind of exposing their unawareness of what's actually happening in a classroom.

The reality is that our, when you put 28 kids in a room together, they are naturally going to interact. Yeah. That's school today. They collaborate, we teach them teamwork skills. They are making friends. They're trying to join in on things. They are figuring out who they are and who they want to be. And all of these social things are happening throughout the entire day.

And part of our job as educators is to prepare our kids for the real world. And the real world today with these, um, life skills that our kids need, they have to do with interacting and with problem solving and critical thinking and collaboration. And because of that, we have to teach these social, um, skills.

It just, it happens because our students have to interact with each other. They aren't sitting at a desk doing worksheets all day, not interacting. Um, and teachers aren't giving lectures for hours on end. That's not how school works anymore. And so I think that people who say things like, Oh, just teach math or reading.

They are kind of naive to what school really looks like now. And they don't mean it to be malicious. They just think that they are, you know, saying they just, they think they have the full picture, but the reality is that they might not because, um, we have to teach our kids these skills because they're using them in the classroom and they're using them every day.

Um, and they need them for life. So I think, um, I mean, it's important for teachers to lean on support, whether it be counselors and social workers and leaning on the overall teams that are in schools. And so I think that's one approach, um, that teachers can use, but also we have a lot of background in mental health and yes, we are not licensed counselors and it's not our job to diagnose anything, but I think that we do deserve more credit than maybe what people are giving us.

Andrea: Yeah, and I, I think that it becomes abundantly clear when teachers have not mastered social emotional learning or their own, like, emotional intelligence, because they tend to be the ones that have a big power struggle in their classrooms, and they tend to not be able to read a situation and intuitively know, like, okay, this is where I should push, and this is where I should maybe back off, because that kid needs a second.

Um, it becomes very, very clear when there are teachers who don't have that kind of, nailed down. Um, and I know for me, when I was in the high school classroom, I would have kids who would come to me, um, really upset because they got an argument with their parents and, you know, they would be like in tears or they would be just like yelling and super frustrated by what was going on.

And a lot of times all they needed was just like a space to air that out in a place where no one's arguing back. Right. Um, But, a lot of times, I felt like it was also my responsibility if they were, like, that upset, I might send a little message to the counselor and be like, Hey, Have you checked in on so and so recently?

Like, things are rough. Like I'll let you, I'll let them share with you what's going on there. Um, because sometimes I've had it where, you know, the kid is talking about the argument they had with their parents about buying a new skateboard and they're so angry, but then you talk to the counselor, the counselor is like, well, their parents are going through a divorce right now and there's a really ugly custody battle going on.

And so sometimes by reaching out and getting those supports, we're also getting better context for, What is going on in that kid's life? I mean, the things that I found out through reaching out to the counselors, um, it's completely changed my perspective. You know, I had One student who had a parent who had passed away the summer before, and this kid was coming in and was sleeping every single day.

And kids don't generally sleep in my class. Like it's, it's, we, we were up and moving and every 15 minutes we're doing something different. And so I, I couldn't figure it out. And I kept asking the kid like, Hey, what's going on? Like anything I can do for you, you know, are you sleeping okay at home? Yeah, I'm sleeping fine.

And then I emailed the counselor. I was like, Hey, I just, this kid is not a problem at all. I just want to see like anything going on. And then they told me, and I was like, Uh, oh, that makes perfect sense. Yeah, yeah, I probably wouldn't care about reading poetry right now if I were in that kid's place as well, you know, like, and so I think that reaching out and getting the help from the professionals when needed, and then obviously we have the whole mandated reporter situations, um, Yeah, where that is like, that is way above our pay grade.

At that point, it's no longer a choice. We have to reach out and, you know, report it to the powers that be. Um, but one of the other things I keep hearing about social emotional learning and this whole topic is that we're making kids too soft and that because of the focus on the feelings, like, Intent versus impact and that whole conversation.

I, and I will say, I completely agree that the conversation has started to become, your intent does not matter at all. Only person who received whatever it was, how they feel about it completely negates what your intent was. And I don't think that's right either. Like, what is your take on that whole thing where, you know, we're creating victims by talking way too much about our feelings at school?

Right, right. 

Natalie: Well, in my opinion, if we look back in history And look at the narratives that we've given people before, in particular boys and men, um, about like, boys can't cry, men can't cry, they shouldn't show their emotions, those types of messages have been extremely damaging and have not only hurt the boys and men themselves, but have also hurt the people that they interact with, which is everybody else.

And so I think that it's a very damaging narrative and looking back in history and looking how that's worked out in the past is important because In my opinion, it hasn't worked out very well. And when we have emotionally intelligent people, then we are people who are empathetic and compassionate and we can spread love and kindness around the world and to the other people that we interact with.

And I think that that is so important and the direction that we need to head in. If we look at how things were in the past, I don't know if I don't know if we were really doing that well. 

Andrea: Well, and, and to your point, the suicide rate for men is substantially higher than any other demographic. Like, because I feel like we get a lot of news on, like, teen suicide and all of that kind of stuff, but the reality is the, the biggest chunk of suicides are men.

Um, because, kind of, because of what you were saying, that like, yeah, we get it. We don't want to be creating, like, this victim method, like, like, victim mindset, but also like just putting it in a box and burying it down deep is not, it's not working. Like, it's definitely not working. And I think there was a misconception that people are, are automatically born with empathy.

And I think that some are, um, and hopefully we all have some ability to have that, but I will tell you like my sweet, sweet, sweet 4 year old son who loves snuggles and is just such a sweetheart. The other day he, what did he say? Um, he said, I don't want you to say goodnight to me. I want daddy. And I was like, okay, that's okay.

I can go get daddy. But do you think maybe you hurt mama's feelings when you said You know, you didn't want me to come and say goodnight to you. And he said, yes. And I was like, well, it's kind of sad. Don't you think that you made mama feel sad? You said, I don't care. I was like, okay, listen, little sociopath, you need to care if what you do hurts other people.

It should make you sad if the people you love are sad. But, and like my daughter, I never had to have a conversation like that because she Still, to this day, and she's six now, we'll go somewhere and she'll bring toys and she'll just shove her bag full of toys and I'm like, what are you doing? And she's like, I want to make sure everyone has something to play with because she knows what it feels like to be left out.

And it's like, she has that like innate sense of like, she's wanting to take care of everybody and make sure everyone's happy. And my son's like, no, I'm gonna go play in the dirt alone. And you can come or not. Like, I don't really care if you come. And so it is an intentional teaching thing, and it would be lovely if we knew that, you know, that intentional teaching was happening in, in all homes.

Um, but we know as teachers, And as people who have been watching the news, there are full grown adults, some in very powerful positions, who are not using our words for kindness, you know? Yes. Exactly. Yes. Um, is, do you think that there is a way, though, that we can teach that kind of emotional maturity without damaging resiliency?

Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I want my daughter and my son to be very intentional that even if they didn't mean to hurt someone's feelings? I want them to apologize if they hurt someone's feelings, even if it was an accident, even if they had the best intent in the world. On the other hand, I want my kids to assume positive intent from other people and not jump to being offended if, you know, somebody says something.

You ask for clarification and talk to them, and if they apologize, be willing to forgive them. Like, I don't want my kids going around looking to be offended or to be hurt by things that other people are saying. Um, And I'm really curious from your perspective, too, because I've never taught elementary.

That terrifies me. And, and so I, by the time they get to high school, my students have very strong opinions about like all of this stuff. So I'm interested from your perspective, how, is there a way we can find a good balance for that? 

Natalie: Well, I think what you just described is exactly why SEL needs to be an entire subject because it's too much and it's not, it's not that simple.

It's not just. Be kind. And that's the end of the story. There are all of these different components of SEL that we have to teach our kids. And being resilient is something that I'm teaching my kids every single day. Perseverance and not giving up and being resilient even during hard times. And that's a part of SEL too.

So that's why it needs to be an entire subject. And that's why we have entire curriculums that are SEL curriculums because it's far more complex. And there are so many different components and social skills that we want our kids to have. Yeah. So I think that's exactly why. 

Andrea: So I'm, I'm wondering now as you're explaining all of this, I'm wondering if we in the secondary and college fields could repackage the literally the same exact lessons from the SEL curriculum, but call it like job skills, and then people would be okay with it.

Because what we're talking about here, like these are workplace skills, it's soft, they call it soft skills, you know, I know there was a big push for that before SEL became like the phrase. I want to say they would say like soft skills or job skills, like you need to be able to come in and shake someone's hand and make eye contact and all of that stuff.

Like that, I, I see that as a huge gap in the secondary curriculum because we, like you said, we don't have the same kids all day. We have them for, 40 minutes, 50 minutes, if you're in block, maybe an hour and 50, but we only see them, you know, that many minutes a day. And we have all of these different curricular things that we have to do.

And I just don't know how to create a space. for that in a way that would feel a lot safer because, because we have such limited time. I feel like secondary teachers connect with a smaller minority of the total number of students that they teach, right? Because you, you teach your 28 students. Um, when I taught in, um, ninth and 10th grade, I would see 200 kids a day.

And so it's so much harder to build a relationship and have a conversation about social emotional skills and all of that when it's like, okay, I just used 15 of our 40 minutes. And now we've got to run through the rest of the stuff. Um, so when, when you're teaching about resiliency, like what are those lessons look like for you?

Natalie: Well, I think one, and you know, I will say secondary is a little out of my realm too. So, um, but one thing that I have done is when we cover the learning targets for the day or for the lesson, um, I will have a social emotional target and then I'll also have the academic target. So, for example, Um, in a social studies lesson, it might be the learning target is, I can name the states and capitals in the Midwest region or something like that.

And we would work on this academic standard for a while, might I add. I was like, one day, good grief, not in one day. But that would be the academic standard and our ultimate goal. And then the other learning target would be, I can speak kindly when I am working with my partner or something like that. Um, that's what I would use at the elementary level, but something where it's like there's a social emotional target in addition to the academic target.

I have found that to be really helpful because that's an easy way to weave the social skills in as they are doing the academic work, if that makes sense. And I wonder if that's something that could be. applicable or useful at the secondary level too. What are your thoughts on that? 

Andrea: Yeah, no, I love that idea of it.

And like I said, I feel like if we call that SEL, I feel like students would, possibly parents as well, might push back. But if we do call it job skills, right? Because we, again, we are talking like, if you don't have social emotional skills to be able to collaborate and work with somebody else, you, you are going to suffer in a workplace and everyone else is going to suffer because you're there, you know?

So, um, you, it, it, I could very much see pulling out the pieces that are going to be most important to them in their, you know, future careers and being like, okay, today guys, we're going to like do a collaborative blah, blah, blah. And here's our goal with the collaboration is that, you know, everyone is participating, there's give and take, like, and really kind of being intentional about saying how those skills are going to be integrated into the activity.

I, and it, you know, I think to your point, it doesn't have to take up 15 minutes. Like it could be two minutes at the beginning of the lesson. Um, but it's, you know, people like me that I would have the best of intensive would always forget. So I would need to have it like written somewhere and have that kind of, um, very intentional reminder in order for it to work for me and for students to learn from it.

Cause they're going to, of course they're going to learn some collaboration if they're working together. Um, but I do think you're right that having it spelled out for them is really, really helpful. So, I like that. I like that idea. 

Natalie: I put my learning targets right on the bottom of my Google Slides, so they're right there the entire lesson as I'm clicking through, which is nice so that they're always displayed.

Um, and then I'm able to change them on the fly if I need to and whatnot. But yeah, 

Andrea: do you have, do you ever have a kid where they're like, I don't know, like some, maybe it was something about sharing was the social, emotional thing. And some kid says, said something really mean. Do you just change it real quick?

It's like, we will use nice words, Kyle. 

Natalie: No, no. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. 

Andrea: See, I'm way too petty. That's why I can't do elementary. I'd be like, some people need to use nicer words. in group seven. Well, there you go. 

Natalie: I say phrases like that all 

Andrea: the time, right? Yeah. Oh my gosh. All right. So we are going to take a really quick break and we'll be back in a second.

Welcome back to those who can't do so. Natalie, one of the things I looked at, um, before bringing you on was one of the reels that you recently posted and it was about how you are able to get a better work life balance. Which is, I think, such a challenge for so many teachers at every single level, because teaching is one of those things that it is just Never ending, like you can truly work a hundred hours a week and you will still find other things to do if you want to.

And I think early career teachers fall into that a lot. Um, it's really hard to figure out what to prioritize, what to not prioritize. And in the reel that you posted, it, You basically explained how you prioritize your prep time so that you are not working more than like 40 to 43 hours a week. So how did you come to like make the decision of like what day you're doing what and all of that?

Natalie: I am pretty typing and so I kind of use, I think in, well in my home and in my personal life and professional life, I try to come up with systems. That will help me to be efficient and productive. And like you said, I quickly realized when I became a teacher that I could be at school all day, every day, and there would still be more to do.

And so I had to figure out what do I let go of? And how do I plan in advance so that I feel fully prepared and not have the Sunday scaries? I still get the Sunday scaries, but I try my best to prevent them. Um, so I came up with this system where I, and I will also say, I know I'm fortunate to get an hour of prep time a day.

I know that other people in other areas of the country are not that fortunate. So I am very lucky to get that. Um, But during my hour of prep time, I, depending on the day of the week, I do a particular task. So on Mondays, I'm doing Special education paperwork, I'm answering emails, I'm filling out forms, and I am doing all of those kind of like things on my, my laptop things is what I call them because it's all of the things that are on my computer.

And I'm doing that on Monday. On Tuesdays, I continue doing those types of tasks. This year when I moved to third grade, that might have to shift a little bit because I'm moving to a new grade level, but that's how I have operated for the past few years. Then on Wednesdays, I start preparing for the next week because when I walk out, At the end of contract hours on Friday, I want to know that everything is set for the week and I'm ready to go.

Because I do not work on the weekends, I do not check my email on the weekends, I try to really have those boundaries so that I can have a better work life balance because it is so easy to not have that balance. So on Wednesdays, I start preparing and I have my planner. I choose exactly what I want to teach for the entire week and lay it all out and figure out what I need to create or what I need to, where I need to pull certain resources from and plan out my entire next week.

At the elementary level, there are always things like. Oh, there's an assembly. There's a band concert. There's a project in fifth grade. Go see the Kids science fair things or whatever it may be. There are always things on our schedule that are unexpected So I have to look at it week by week and kind of figure out how to structure everything And so I'm doing I do that on Wednesdays and then on Thursdays.

I Make sure that I have everything created if I'm creating a worksheet or creating a resource or editing slides or whatever it may be. And so I'm doing that on Thursday and then on Friday I go to the printer and I'm at the printer for like 40 minutes and I'm printing out all of the things that I need, making sure they're organized, um, For math this past year, I did a multi tiered grouping model and that was a lot of, that added my time at the printer.

So that's why it took up 40 minutes, but it was really great. But so that Friday's on my printing day and then I put it all in my magazine holders. I have one for each day, Monday through Friday, and I set out my papers for the week. make sure everything's organized and I walk home or walk out the door on Friday with my desk clean and everything ready to go for the next week.

So. Very type A. I recognize that. 

Andrea: You could not describe a more different way of teaching than me if you tried. Are you a post it note person? Oh yeah. Yeah. And I'll lose the post it notes and like just the fact that you are able. to like on Wednesdays you start planning and you're working the entire time on one thing and you're prepping that and you're focused and you work on that until it's done.

Couldn't be me not a single time in my career have I been able to succeed because I, I look at that and I'm like, yes, that makes sense. That looks fantastic. But what I would do knowing me is I would start on Wednesday and think about a plan. Okay. I am going to be teaching Romy and Juliet next week.

Excellent. Okay. On Monday, I need to introduce Romy and Juliet, and then I would open up a tab on my computer and I would try and find the slides that I used last time. And then I couldn't find them. So then I'm like, you know what? Let's do some razzle dazzle. Let's go on YouTube. And then I'm looking on YouTube and I found this really great thing and oh, you know what?

Oh, look at this cute video on YouTube. Oh, look at the cats. Like, that is where, and then my planning is over and I'm done and I've done absolutely nothing. I need you in my brain being like, all right, social emotional learning skills, we're going to learn today, responsibility. And at the end of today, you need to have these things done because I know I don't actually need Wednesday's activity until Wednesday.

And so a lot of times. It very quickly becomes Wednesday morning at, you know, seven o'clock. And my students came in at 8 15, the hour and 15 minutes is my only time where I'm like adrenaline rushed prepping for the day. And I've, I've done what you described, I think successfully. Twice, probably, in the nine years that I taught, where I had everything printed for the next week, and, like, in folders, but even if, even then, I think I probably lost one of the folders before the day came.

I, at the beginning of the year, 

Natalie: Everyone has their own process, so, 

Andrea: there's nothing wrong process is very generous, to call it a process. I, well, it's the same way at my house, where, you know how there are people, and are you one of those people that you're like, on Mondays? We deep clean the freezer and then on Tuesdays, I've tried so many times to do that where somebody's like, yeah, so what you do is just every day of the week you have a different household cleaning task.

But I hate that because then it's always a little messy because you haven't done the other tasks. And so I let my house become a disaster. And then on Saturday it's clean. And then on Sunday afternoon, it's, it's no longer clean. But that Saturday afternoon is really nice. That like lovely serotonin that I get from just living in the clean and smelling the bleach in my house.

I'm just like, ah, yeah, that's it. But then the rest of the time, cause I'm like, I, I can't, I'm not going to halfway do it. I very much admire your ability to like compartmentalize and break things up like that. Um, because I think 

Natalie: it's interesting that you say that because I, like when it comes to my house.

I can't operate like that either. I've seen people with those plans where it's like, yeah, deep clean the freezer on Monday and then you do this on Tuesday. But like, I guess maybe because I already have one part of my life compartmentalized and like, okay, with the house, we'll just figure it out. It'll be fine.

Andrea: Yeah. Do you find too that like I, for me, I have a certain number of things in my life that I can be successful at at a time and it will, it will never be all of them. So I can like be cooking and Preparing healthy meals, I can be exercising regularly, I can be keeping my house in order, I can have my lesson plans prepped, and I can be managing my social life, and I get to choose three of those, and only three at a time, because the other two, there's not time for the other two, like, you can, you can, like, be exercising, eating well, and be on top of your lesson plans, but you're not doing anything socially, And I can't remember what the other one was.

Yeah, 

Natalie: exactly. Yeah, it's so hard to keep everything balanced. We have so many plates spinning as teachers. It's like, I mean, it's a lot to keep track of. It's a lot. 

Andrea: Yeah, but I, I love that you have this and it looks like on your Instagram, it seems like you have a lot of things like this where you're just giving really great nuggets of advice and sharing things that can help teachers who are just trying to be successful.

And I think that even if I would be off the plan almost immediately, having a mindset going into it that looked like that, I could see being very, uh, very helpful for me and, like, giving me some sort of goal. And I find that even now, because I'm teaching college, so I have way less prep than I needed ever before.

There's way more work for the students and a lot higher expectations for my students at the college level than in K 12. And so I can be like, I'm going to need you to read 130 pages and be ready to discuss it on Monday. Like, you do that in high school and they're going to laugh at you and you are going to be hearing crickets when you ask a question, you know?

Right. Almost, that's almost worse for me sometimes with my ADHD brain because I know that I only have to prep essentially four lessons now because I see my students three days a week from one class and then I have an evening class for the other one. That's all I have and I'm like knock that out. So quick.

And, and I don't have like that constant, like tomorrow I have five sets of students coming to see me. I better have my act together. Uh, you know, so I, I don't know, is there something that you do to give yourself a sense of urgency or does your brain not require that? Because for me, it requires the panic.

Natalie: Yeah. In order to get it done. I know what you mean. Yeah. I just know that I am going to feel anxious. on Sunday and not be able to truly relax during the weekend if I have those tasks hanging over my head. And sometimes with the panic, like the panic for you gets you moving, the panic for me makes me freeze.

And then I'm like, well, no, I'm for sure going to fail and it really makes me like freeze and then I get stuck in the panic and I'm able to move. And so I don't thrive in an environment where I'm feeling a lot of that, like pressure. I mean, naturally, sometimes I need a little bit of. something to get me moving, but I, I just know that I'm going to feel so anxious on Sunday.

And I remember when I was, um, six. Okay. So my first year in the classroom. I remember it was a Sunday and I, every Sunday I went over to my parents house with the intention of just hanging out with my parents and, and just being with them. And I remember having my lesson plans book or lesson plan books out and we had football going in the background, like classic fall Sunday.

And I remember. Doing that for hours and feeling like I'm getting nowhere, I'm getting nowhere. And when I actually, it occurred to me on one Sunday, I was like, you know what? It's because you have all of these things going on in the background. You are bringing it home with the intention of doing it, but also with the intention of being with your parents, but also with the intention of watching football, but also the intention of relaxing on a Sunday, but yet you have all your books up.

It just doesn't work. So if I cut the distractions and just leave the work at work, sit down, focus, and get it done, then I can leave it at work and just, and not worry about it at all on the weekends. So that one Sunday, when it occurred to me, I was like, okay, time for a change. And so my first year teaching, I, um, ended up leaving every single day at contract time, unless something unexpected happened.

I mean, we can all relate to like those, those days when they're the extra rough days and you're like, okay, I'm sitting in my classroom in silence. And I'm just going to be here. And sometimes you need that. But for the most part, I would leave it contract hours every single day, except Thursdays. That was my one day.

I was the last person out of the building. And I allowed myself that one day to plan for the entire next week. And I did that for my first year teaching because it provided some type of structure, but it also allowed the extra time because I knew I had to have that extra time because I was figuring everything out.

But then the next year after that, I was able to make a switch where I didn't have to stay late on every single Thursday. I was able to do it during my prep, but it takes being really intentional. Um, I, I know like a lot of people on social media talk about how they go and talk to their teacher bestie and they go and they are being social and, and that's super important.

That's great. And I'm a social person, but I, I, Find myself shutting my door and planning and figuring it all out so that I can have that work life balance. And it is, it is a bummer because I do miss out on some of the social aspects of like sitting in the teacher's lounge or things like that. But I have a work life balance that really works.

And then I can go out to happy hour with my teacher friends on Friday. And that's way more fun to me anyways. So I, it's, it's all about finding a balance and something that works for you. I've changed what works for me throughout the years, depending on what stage I'm in. Yeah, my first year looked very different than my third year versus my sixth year, and it just, it changes as you go, but if you can set boundaries that work for the time of stage or for the stage that you're in, I think that's really helpful.

Andrea: Yeah, I think that was one of my main challenges is like I, well. Part of it was I really enjoyed my team and we prepped together often. And so instead of like working in silence, getting everything done, we would start work and we'd get some stuff done. And then the rest of the time we were just chit chatting and enjoying being around each other and hanging out and sometimes venting about our days or whatever else is going on.

And so it became really challenging to actually get stuff done. Um, when we were hanging out, especially if it was like during a lunchtime or, or something like that. Like, no, no, no real work is happening in those situations, and sometimes we would close our doors, but Right. terrible with that. Well, let's be 

Natalie: honest, in every other profession, pretty much, They have time to do that and have lunches.

I mean, I'm thinking about like my fiance, he gets to go out and have lunches on the house and happy hours and go to twins games and go to all these events and do fun things and they get time for that social stuff and they even have it provided for them. And so, I mean, we deserve it too. It's just that I choose to kind of cut that out to make time for the other.

My way isn't necessarily the right way because I'm still missing out by doing that. It's hard to have a work life balance, so it's important to recognize that, too. 

Andrea: Yeah. Yeah, it couldn't be me shutting the door and making sure no one interrupts me. I have, I don't know if you've seen, like, the pictures on social media where it's like a, like a sign out on someone's back or on their door that says, like, Please don't talk to me.

I have no self control and I will talk to you. Like, that's what I probably needed for myself. And occasionally, if I had something super stressful coming or I really, really, really had to get something prepped for my next class, then again, it's like that I'm really under the gun and having to like really get it done.

Then I could have The control to do that. But if not, I'm like, I'm gonna go see what they're doing. I'm bored. Let's go walk to the bathroom that's on the other side of the campus and get a little fresh air because that's good for us. I'm like, right, right, right. 

Natalie: Well, and sometimes you need to do that too.

So 

Andrea: yeah, yeah. I think it's just a constant, like you said, like figuring out in the phase that you're in right now, what is going to work best? Cause eventually what I started doing is I would come in, I would drop my kids off at daycare. early, and then I would come in and I would have about 45 minutes to an hour before classes started to make sure I was completely prepped for that day.

And literally, it was probably that day that I was just double checking, making sure everything was there because, uh, the team I worked with, we would often like collaborate and work together. So I would like finalize plans like the morning of, and it was very rare that we Like that there was anything left to do, and it was a, everybody had Chromebooks, so I didn't usually need to make copies.

Um, so that also helps. Elementary, I think, is a little bit more reliant on, like, actual physical copies of things. Right. Yes, for sure. Which, I don't know, have you taught, like, one on one Chromebook? classes before where all the kids are on Chromebooks? Yeah, iPads. Okay, what's your take on that for elementary and using iPads and all of that?

Do you think it helps or hinders learning? 

Natalie: Well, it depends. If you give a child a device and don't monitor them, and let them, for example, take their iPad into their bedroom and let them, uh, get sidetracked and go on YouTube and watch videos of cats, like you said, or watch other things or get sidetracked and watch, you know, compilation videos of TikToks on YouTube or things like that, then that is a It requires monitoring, and I think that That's a big misconception with devices.

I think a lot of times it feels like another thing to monitor for parents specifically. Um, and so it feels tiring and exhausting because it feels like it requires a lot of monitoring, which it does. I think it really, it does. And so at school, we have the technology for that. So I'm able to see all of my kids screens at once.

from my own computer, which is really nice. Um, but I think with the technology, being very intentional about expectations and about how to use technology appropriately, all of those things are really important. One thing I did notice with COVID though, when we were doing virtual learning, the quality of work, I mean, decreased by an unbelievable amount at the elementary level when we were giving students virtual.

Um, assignments and activities versus paper, pencil, and that wasn't the case for all things. For example, there are some, you know, learning apps and platforms that are super helpful and they work great. But when I was putting worksheets online and giving it to them through our like learning management system, the quality of work decreased by an unbelievable amount.

And so paper, pencil is so important for, for our kids. Last year, I had a lot of experiences with iPads that I had not had before. And I had had a lot prior, but. Wow, there were a lot of things I learned. Like accessing 

Andrea: pornography and stuff like that? 

Natalie: Oh, yeah, which I have had before, you know, but this was a whole new level.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Natalie: And then you throw in AI, too, now. Oh, gosh, that's terrifying. 

Andrea: Well, and I think that a lot of parents also are always thinking, like, if it's a device from the school, like, the content that they're going to be able to reach. is not going to be explicit because the school's managing it. But kids are very good at finding stuff.

And sometimes they're not even intending to. It's just been put out there on some kind of like Reddit thread or something like that. And they're being exposed to things that like they are not ready for in any way, shape or form. So. 

Natalie: Or they create the content themselves. Oh God, no. Yes. 

Andrea: My gosh, fourth graders.

That breaks my heart. Yeah. I think that's one of those things that as. Like, now, the current generation of adults that are having kids in these grades, like, I think that we are more aware than the previous generation of parents was, but still, it, we're all just playing catch up. Because, like, to even think about your child doing something like that is so mortifying, so I can only imagine what it was like for them, the parents, to get that call and, like, hear about the, oh, gosh, 

Natalie: that's just, yeah, check.

Oh, my gosh, yes. Check Kids Advice guys. Absolutely, yes. Um, One thing I will say is I always have the students call and they can explain what they created and what they were looking up. Good. And, so, um, Yes, we do the phone call together. Whenever I have the chance, that's what I do because it needs to, um, come from the horse's mouth, if you will.

Yeah. Yeah. That's a really 

Andrea: good idea. Um, so one of the things we always do is get advice, uh, or give advice to, uh, some folks that write in. And the question we have today is, how do you handle discipline issues when your administration puts students that have problems with each other in the same classroom?

Natalie: Yes. I will say at my particular school, I am so fortunate because admin will ask the teachers where we want to place students. So I'm very fortunate in that regard. Um, we get to create class lists and if we get a new student in the middle of the year, we choose where they're placed. It's really nice being treated like a professional and getting asked, like, where should we place these kids?

So nice. However, you know, we aren't all knowing. We don't know how certain kids will mesh or vibe with each other and you never know how those things are going to go. You can predict it and try your best, but sometimes personalities clash and you can't do anything about that. Yeah. So I will say when this happens, I think the number one piece of advice I would give is to be proactive.

And I think that In the past when I have had certain personalities clash, I have had students sit down with me and I will say, okay, this isn't working. We need to come up with a plan. What is our plan going to be? And we can kind of collaborate on that and the kids can help come up with a plan to figure out how to move forward.

However, in like one or two very specific instances, even sitting down and having that conversation, has been difficult. So if that's the particular case, that's not very common, but if that's the particular case, I would suggest You sit the kids down together and then you can say, this isn't working.

Here's the plan versus having it be more of a collaborative experience. Ideally, it would be a collaborative experience and you can go with option one, but if it's a very particular situation where that's not possible, then sit down and come up with a plan and be proactive and be very clear about. what the consequences will be and what's going to happen.

And we have conversations all the time in class about how, you know, you don't need to be best friends, but you do need to be civil. You do need to be respectful and you do need to be mindful of your words and actions. 

Andrea: Right. Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's also interesting in the question, The, the way it's phrased when your administration puts students that have problems with each other in the same classroom, like to me, I never think about the kids I have in my class being like admin, being like really involved in even that part of the process.

A lot of times in secondary, it's the count school counselors that are trying to fit this massive puzzle together, and my assumption is always like, they don't, they don't know that these kids hate each other. They're not intentionally, they're not like trying to spite me and putting these kids in the same class, right.

Usually right. Like, more often than not, I would call the, the counselors and be like, hey, these two kids hate each other. They've gotten into physical fights. Can we move one of them? And almost every time the answer was, yeah, we just need to run it up and make, get it approved and stuff. And great. And then they get switched and problem solved.

Now, that's in high school when the physical fights can become, I think, a lot more commonly become, um, a lot more violent, and so often, and, you know, at the schools I've been at, there have been some schools where there was some gang activity, so they would be, you know, wearing different colors and stuff like that, and so it became a lot easier, I think, to separate them because, uh, the kid who runs with the Bloods is not going to you.

Be willing to come to terms with a guy who runs with, you know, the Crips or, like, one of the other gangs in the school. Like, it's not gonna happen. Like, we're not gonna be able to do that. So, let's just keep you guys, you know, separated, um, as best you can. And often, I actually talked about this on, um, an episode with one of, uh, a couple of my former co workers, but oftentimes, the kids who really don't like each other, I would always talk to them and be like, Hey, like, I know you don't like them, but you need to show me enough respect.

To keep that out of my classroom. Like, you cannot be yelling or cursing or doing any of that nonsense. Like, this is a place for learning. This is a place where we show respect to each other. What you do when you're not in my classroom, that is your business. I want you to be healthy and happy and successful.

I can't help you outside of this classroom, like, but in here, we're gonna act right. And most of the time, that worked. Um, but I do like the, the idea of making it collaborative and stuff. I just, there were so many times where I'd be, have these two girls together. I'd be like, okay. 

Natalie: Well, and you bring up, you bring up a good point, too, because there are more, you know, when you have gang activity, that's definitely more serious than.

other scenarios. And so that's a particular case where it's like, you know, this isn't going to be a collaborative experience. We're just going to, 

Andrea: this is how it's going to be. They don't want to collaborate. Yeah. Yeah. 

Natalie: No, no. Yeah, exactly. Well, and to your point too, like with counselors and other administration, they want it to go well too.

I mean, at least for the most part, to go well as it was. So, um, Kind of advocating for yourself and advocating for the kids, too. And the best learning environment for everybody should go pretty well for the most part with most admin because they want things to go well too, so. 

Andrea: Yeah, because if the kids are fighting, they're going to be in the admin office way more often than if they are in a classroom where they're getting along with people, so.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so one of the other things we always do is I talk about what students are doing, and I usually do listener submissions. Just now people are getting back to school, so I haven't gotten any submissions at the moment from, um, folks saying the crazy things that their students are up to.

But, um, I had one of my former students DM me this week. So I'm going to share one of the things that one of my students is up to. Um, and her name's Allison. She DMed me this week, and she said that she had sent a reel, one of my reels, to one of her cousins. And her cousin was like, you're kidding or was like, oh my gosh, I love her.

And she's like, oh, well, she was my teacher. And her, her cousin's response was, you're kidding. I love this woman with my whole heart. She's like my second mother. Oh, that's so sweet. I was like, oh, that's so sweet. So sweet. So if Allison's cousin is listening, I love you too. Thank you so much. That is just made my day.

Number one, that my former student was sending my reels to other people. Like she's not sick enough of sick of me enough to like be like, no, I'm never going to listen to this person again, you know, but that she was like sharing my reel with her cousin. Her cousin really likes my stuff. So it just made my week.

So I thought I would share it. It's, it's, Hopefully, you know, Allison or her cousin is listening so they can give a little shout out. That 

Natalie: is so sweet. I love your stuff too, Andrea. Like, I have to say, you bring so much humor into teaching and the phrase I'm constantly saying is If you don't laugh, you're gonna cry and we need to, we need to laugh more because otherwise, oh my gosh, it's overwhelming.

So thank you for bringing humor into this profession. I truly appreciate you and you, you've made me laugh so many times. Oh, 

Andrea: thank you. That's so sweet. I, that especially makes me, um, feel good because you're an elementary teacher and I think you are very much the quintessential elementary teacher like you have like the warmest smile and just have a gentle voice and so when I hear that my content is also reaching elementary teachers it makes me really happy because I, I know like the dead inside secondary teachers generally like are, are, like my content, but then I'm always like, maybe I'm too rough for some of the elementary teachers to, to vibe with.

So 

Natalie: elementary these days, 

Andrea: I was going to say you guys have seen some things recently. So yeah, 

Natalie: yeah, yeah. I love my job. I love the kids, but yeah, well then 

Andrea: it's been a run for everybody. Um, So, before I let you go, can you share some of the things you have going on, where people can find you, and all of that?

Natalie: Yeah, so, the easiest way to find me is to go to Instagram, and then my handle is always upper elementary with periods in between, so always. upper. elementary. And then you can also find me at www. alwaysupperelementary. com. And then, I'm also on Teacher Street Teachers. And like I said at the beginning, my goal is to provide teachers with little to no prep resources that are helpful, actually realistic and effective.

So, um, if that's something you're interested in, yeah, come follow along. Let's be friends. 

Andrea: Awesome. Well, Natalie, thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate it. Yes, thank you, Andrea. It's been so much fun. All right, guys, we will be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. Um, I very much enjoyed chatting with Natalie and hearing about how she approaches things in her elementary classroom. And I still like I'm, I keep on thinking about her schedule and like how she segments the week out. Like, could I be that girl? Like, I don't, I don't know if I could be that girl.

I want to think. that I could be that girl, but I have tried so many times, but you know what? For a very long time, I didn't use a planner and now I'm very much a planner person. So maybe if I just like made myself a list on my planner on those days that correspond, maybe I could be that person, but I, I see the night I should stop having negative self talk because I'm like, I'm never going to be able to do it.

I am. I'm going to try. Okay. So I'm going to try. and do that, especially because I have so much freedom in my schedule. I definitely could do that. And because I am currently writing a book, uh, I'm going to need to have that kind of structure in my life. Um, if you have any suggestions on who you think should come on this podcast next, you can email me andrea at human dash content.

com, or you can contact the human content podcast family at human content pod. Thank you guys so much who have left reviews. It brings my heart so much joy every single time I see them. In particular, thank you to, this name, Disappointed326, it's kind of a rough, a rough name to see at the beginning of a review, but Disappointed326 on Apple Podcast said, a podcast for teachers or anyone that appreciates great teachers.

I'm not a teacher, but had a lot of great teachers and observed the difference in the learning experience for our kids when they had great teachers. Andrea is one of those leading the charge to make sure kids can still have great teachers, very funny content on Instagram, and an enjoyable podcast as well, covering the challenges and joys of teaching.

Yay. Thank you so much. Disappointed. 3, 2, 6. I'm glad it was not a disappointing episode for you to catch . Um, if you want to watch these on YouTube, you can catch them every single week. They're up on YouTube at Educator Andrea. Thank you so much for listening. I am your host, Andrea Forkham. A very special thank you to our guest co host, Natalie Ringgold.

Our executive producers are Andrea Forkham, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke. Our editor, editor, editor, editor, editor, is Andrew Sims. Our engineer, Andrew Sims. is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi. Our recording location is the Indio State Bi College of Education. To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's program disclaimer and ethics policy and submission verification and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea.

com. Those Who Can't Do is a human content production.

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