Homework Horror Stories: When Parents Say ‘No Way! with Gabe Dannenbring

Andrea: Welcome to Those Who Can't Do,

I'm Andrea Forcum, and today I have with me, again, Gabe Dannenbring. Hi! Hey, 

Gabe: so happy to be here. How are you? Good, how are you? I'm good. See, I, I, I've got to sit back here because I, I did a tour at Rose Hulman Institute of Technology, which is probably, And like, I went there and I felt so incredibly stupid when I was there because everyone there is a genius.

And I was like, this is an incredible place. This is awesome. Why am I here? And I was posting about it and you were like, Hey, that is 10 minutes from my house. And when I saw the message from you, I was already on the plane. I was like, crap. That would have been a perfect time to meet up and go get coffee and talk about it, about education.

So I decided to put that on my bookshelf. 

Andrea: I love it. 

Gabe: I've got 28 levels on my bookshelf and about four of them are full of books. So I need to find things to put in there. 

Andrea: Right. Right. Yeah. I remember that because you posted a picture and you, number one, you were at Rose Hulman with 10 minutes is probably even a bit far.

It's Hulman every single day to drop my kids off at their kindergarten. And I was like, there's no way, there's no way he's at Rose Hulman. Number one, they couldn't have found a closer teacher influencer to bring to their school. Like, they're just gonna fly Gaben to chit chat. And it was, you were with John Green, right?

Gabe: Uh, Hank Green. Hank Green. Yeah. And it was, it was so, it was super 

cool. Like, it brought me there. It's, uh, Look at the school and talk about it. And then they're like, Hey, uh, this is our 150th anniversary. We've got Hank green. Who's here. Do you want to interview him and ask him some questions? I thought to myself, uh, yeah, absolutely.

So it was an interesting guy. He was really nice. He was really nice. He was normal for a celebrity. He was very normal. So it was interesting. But yeah, I was bummed that we didn't get together. I 

Andrea: know. Yeah. It's so funny because I have a couple of friends who actually work at Rose Holman and yes, they did.

You're absolutely, like, Rose Hulman is the, it's a college, not a university, so they don't grant doctorates, but they are regularly, like, top schools for what they do. They are very much into, like, computer science and all that, so the people who go there are insanely genius. And one of the guys who works there, I was like, yeah, so.

You know, I heard you had Hank Green on campus, and he's like, yeah, you know, funny thing about that. Everybody, like, was real excited, and I was kind of, I was like, who? Who? Who's? And I'm like, how do you not know the Green brothers? Like, John Green lives in Indianapolis. He's always talking about how great it is living in Indianapolis and all that, which is about, like, an hour away from Terre Haute.

And I was just like, You don't deserve to have been the place that Hank Green went and hung out. Like, you didn't appreciate being in the presence. I was, yeah, I was fully jealous when you posted videos and pictures of you, like, just chatting with Hank Green and, and doing all that. Just hanging out. Just hang, just casually hang out with them.

See, and I thought 

Gabe: Indiana was small enough where, like, every Indiana celeb that I've ever heard of would just all be hanging out. 

Like, I thought I'd go meet Pat McAfee. Like, hanging out there somewhere. It's like, Oh no, it turns out, like, 

that's not how this works. Like not every famous person in Indiana is sitting in the same room like, Oh, I'm going to be Jeff Gordon or something.

He's from Indiana. Like, Oh, no, it doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way. 

Andrea: Larry Bird, there would be kind of a chance, because you know, Indiana State, that is Larry Bird's home, and there's a statue. Did you go into Terre Haute at all, or were you just at the university? 

Gabe: Yeah, so I was in Terre Haute, I went to some restaurant, and it was really good, and it was in like The terminal?

I was a terminal, it was like an old horse, uh, not shed, what do you call those? Oh, you went to 

Andrea: stables? Stables? Stables! Stables! Guys, this is real niche Tarahoke content right now. Yeah, Stables is like, it's like the fancy, very expensive restaurant that we have in town. 

Gabe: Yeah, I didn't pay for it. It was on, it was on the company dollar.

It was delicious. It was great. It was sweet. I was hoping to ride a horse there 

because, like, oh yeah, horses used to live here and like I ate dinner in like a stable booth. I was like, bring the horse out, let's go. But no, it doesn't work that way. It does 

Andrea: not actually come with horses. And so since, since last time you were on the podcast too, you got married.

Gabe: I did. Congratulations! Yeah, so far marriage is so easy. Oh my gosh. It's all we've done is get married and go on a honeymoon. It's just been like, if this is all marriage 

is for the rest of my life, I don't see why people say it. I'm kidding. No, it's, uh, marriage is awesome. Love my wife. She's, uh, she's super cool.

And, uh, yeah, marriage is sweet. I love it. 

Andrea: Congratulations. That's super exciting. What's new with you? What's going 

Gabe: on? Your school school year. Are you guys back in action now? 

Andrea: We are. Yeah, so we, the Indiana State starts back in like mid August, and then we, now I'm like working and placing teachers at the school, and I actually just spent today at some of the middle schools, and you're still, correct me if I'm wrong, teaching middle school, yes?

Gabe: Oh yeah, yep, I'm in it. I, I taught today about the organelles. I tried teaching my other, my accelerated class about electromagnetism. Um, one of them, one of the lessons, but much better than the other. I'll put it that way. Electromagnetism is not my strong suit. No, no, no. When I got my degree in health education, we didn't spend a lot of time talking about how to teach about electromagnetism.

But did you know, if you take a wire and then you take a, uh, a nail, And then you take a 6 volt battery, and then you put some tape on the 6 volt battery, it'll create an electromagnet. You can pick up paperclips. 

Andrea: I did not know that. Did you do that in class today? 

Gabe: We did do that. And you know what? The thing about that is that that experiment was super sweet, like 20 years ago, back before we had before we didn't have all this awesome technology.

Now you do some of those, like, really simple experiments, like the potato clock. Yeah. Kids are like, This is stupid. I've got chat GPT that can do more impressive stuff. 

Andrea: Yeah. You know, they have this thing now, uh, I saw it at a recent professional development that they call The Cube. Have you heard of The Cube?

Gabe: No, I'm interested. 

Andrea: Okay, so essentially the idea is that it's like, it literally looks like a cube, but it syncs with AI so that students who are wearing either AI goggles or, uh, Um, like VR goggles or have their phone out or something like that can look at it and then through the lens it will look like whatever you program it to look like.

So, um, Potentially, you could make it look like an organelle and, and like have them zoom in and turn it around and stuff, but what is in their hand is a box, but when they look through the computer thing and they're trying to sell it as like, this is this great technological because people, you know, it helps to touch the things and to look at it and have manipulables and stuff like that.

But like, That's still, you're still looking at a screen. 

Gabe: Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. And, uh, I, I'm sure people will only use that for educational purposes. If they can program whatever they want to look at, it'll only be educational. Yeah. There'll be nothing bad. In a health class, 

Andrea: especially. Yeah. 

Gabe: Yeah. There are certain units you don't want to use that for health class.

Maybe, maybe put the cubit away for that one and take out the textbook. 

Andrea: Right. Yes, I would, I would agree with that. So, okay, so this year, how do you feel like the vibes have been with your students, with your class? Like, do you feel like kids are starting to come back at like a post pandemic level or do you feel like they're like kind of back to normal?

Gabe: You know, that's such a good question. So, and it's hard to tell because I don't know if this year is an abnormality for me because so far my year's off to an incredible start. It's been awesome. Kids have been great. Parents have been great. I've had very few issues. I haven't gotten a single FU from a kid yet, which I think is a new record.

I've only written one offers referral in about three weeks, which is unheard of for me, like you, but I think it's just because the group I have this year seem to be very, very solid. I know other teachers are struggling with behaviors and things, but I don't know. I, I, like I look at the effects like post COVID are we over the hump or are we over the hump of, Oh yeah, that learning loss it's done with everybody got caught back up on the reading, caught back up on their math.

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gabe: I don't, I don't think so. I don't think we're there yet. I definitely think that kids have gotten better at. almost hiding it. And I, I also think that a lot of teachers will say, Oh my gosh, the curriculum that we teach now is so much easier than it used to be. So maybe we're seeing the effects of we've made the curriculums a little bit easier and that in turn will make it easier for the kids to pass, which is that a good thing or a bad thing?

I don't know. That's for For the listener to decide. Uh, but I, I don't know how, that's such a good question. What are you seeing at the college level? 

Andrea: So in, within the college level, I see a lot of them talking about managing work life balance in a way that I, I know for me, for sure, like was never taught to me directly.

It was never something I even thought about. It was just like, you become a teacher and then you like, like bleed yourself to death in the halls of the classroom and like, just do all you can. And that is not the perspective of a lot of these students. They very much have a perspective of like, I'm going to go and I'm going to do my job.

Um, but And then I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna go home. And it's really fascinating to see this kind of a shift and how there's like this generational tension. I think that happens between the more seasoned teachers who have been in the classroom for 15 years, who when they were first year teachers, like completely devoted 12 hour, 15 hour days.

And And they have that expectations of the teachers that are coming after them. And the new teachers are going into it saying, like, I will come in and work my contract. 

Gabe: Yeah, what do you attribute that to? Why are kids, not just kids, but why is this generation of college kids doing that? 

Andrea: I don't, I don't know.

Like, honestly, and I, I, I almost wonder, is it like one of those things where every generation says, like, the new generation doesn't know how to work? You know, is it one of those things where we're just like, they, what they do and how work looks for them looks different than it did for us? Therefore, they had, like, kids don't know how to work these days.

But I, I mean, there, I've assigned some homework this semester and I never assign anything that, number one, I never assigned homework when I taught high school, like I taught within the hours of the school day and all of that, but within college I do because there is an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong, but I had always heard.

For every one hour you spend in class each week, it's two hours of work outside of class. Yeah. Which is why you're not supposed to take more than like 12 to 15 credit hours, because there is an assumption you are doing work outside of the classroom. Yeah. That was always what I had heard. Now, I don't try to get close to, like, trying to match that.

Um, But I had a student recently give some feedback because I have them like journal each week saying that like I am giving just way too much homework and, you know, we're together three days a week and if you can't get the work done during those three days, like that, that's kind of a teaching problem, not a learner problem.

And I'm like, first of all, bold. Like, real bold. Yeah. 

Gabe: Yeah. Yeah. Keep going. I got some thoughts on that one. 

Andrea: Bold to say that. Like, and I do try and, like, I take everything that students say and kind of try and absorb it and think about, like, okay, is that really fair? Do we think that that's fair? And I wrote him a very long response explaining the whole credit hour thing, and then was like, Mike, like, I really don't give that much, I'm not giving, you know, it's a six credit class, I'm not giving 12 hours of homework every single week.

A six 

Gabe: credit class is a big class. 

Andrea: It's because it's technically two, because we have, I 

Gabe: was gonna say that's gonna be two classes. 

Andrea: It's technically two because we have them in class for all of the coursework, and then we have them in the field. And so each section is worth three credits. And so I, I don't, I don't give that much homework.

Um, but I do give homework. There's probably each week, two to four hours of homework. I expect them. to do each week. And there was a lot of pushback. And I remember in college, like, it would never have occurred to me to be like, four hours of homework is excessive. Like, I would never say that. 

Gabe: Yeah, and I'll be blunt because you probably can't be as blunt as you want to since you work for the university.

Andrea: Right, 

Gabe: right, right. Yeah, there's an expectation with, college is hard. College is hard. It's supposed to be hard. And one of the things that's hard, Is time management. And that's one of the important things about college is it's going to teach you how to manage your time. And you might have to do things outside of class hours.

Like that's, I always thought the assumption was, yeah, the one hour, what did you say? One hour, one credit hour. 

Andrea: Two hours of like homework. Yeah, yeah, I always 

Gabe: thought that. Now, that doesn't mean I think professors should be assigning busy work to assign busy work, but yeah, you should be a little stressed out in college.

That's okay. It is okay to be a little stressed out. That's why they say college is stressful. That's why most people don't have a job. Because their job is to do college. So I don't know. And, and, and that can open up a great conversation about, have we gone over the edge on talking about work life balance, school life balance, that there is a happy medium somewhere in there.

Do I think that young people should be going home and having hours of homework all the time? No, I don't think so. I don't think that's right. Like my middle schoolers, I don't give them homework. I want them to go home and be kids. They're busy enough as it is. And, and, and then I, I, I don't want to, I don't want to give them homework, but sometimes it's okay to say, Hey, here's something you have to go home and do, and you have to show a little bit of initiative and show some responsibility and say, I can't play video games tonight because I have to do my work.

Just like people do in the real world as they get older and, and school is kind of a place for you to train in that way. where it's pretty low level stakes, where it's like, yeah, I can't go to the bars tonight because I have to go do, uh, a research paper about Ed's psych. Yeah, that's kind of how, how life goes.

You make those decisions. So I don't know, but I could be completely wrong. I'm sure there's a counter to that argument. But I also think in education, People are really focused on that work life balance and be like, Oh, I'm not going to bring on a bunch of work at home. Partly because there isn't a pay raise for going above and beyond.

Like that sounds bad to say, but there's. Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of teachers that feel that way of, I'm not going to go above and beyond because what's there to show for it? Yeah, the test scores might look better. Yeah, I might feel a little bit more prepared when I go to school. There isn't the, the pay increase that comes with it.

So then there comes the conversation of, should we give pay raises to teachers who have high test scores? Well, we know how that works. Some on paper, that sounds great. That sounds awesome. Yeah. High test scores. Good teachers give them money. Well, we know there's other factors that go into that. So that whole method isn't polished yet because we know there's so many factors.

There's like, we know test scores that we're measuring how you do on one day. We also don't take into account what school are you at? We know that there's schools that your clientele, your students are lacking the necessary resources at home. So yeah, they're not going to score super high because they're hungry.

So is that a showing of the teacher or is that basic psychology saying, Hey, look at Maslow's hierarchy. We know this is not going to end well because the student does not have the things that they need to, uh, to be successful. So I don't know, but yeah, the work life balance is important. It is important.

And I always tell people that teaching is a marathon. It's not a sprint. So don't bring a bunch of work home early on in your teaching career. Cause you're gonna get so burnt out. I think you're gonna be part of the community that leaves teaching after three years, because they're like, God, this isn't for me anymore, which I'm not faulting teachers for doing that.

That's just where the data is. People leave at that point. 

Andrea: Yeah, and that's changed recently, right? Like you brought, um, it was a Wall Street Journal article, I think, that talked a little bit about how those numbers have shifted. 

Gabe: Yeah. So I, this came across the, I read the Wall Street Journal a lot. I love it.

I love the Wall Street Journal. I love the fact that I pay for the 

subscription. 

I feel like I'm getting something special. Yeah, I go look at the three stocks I've invested in. I feel like I'm a Wall Street guy. So this all of a sudden came across the front page. I'm like, Oh, this is interesting. Let me look at this.

And the, the, the heading of it, it says teachers are burning out on the job, which we know is nothing new. And then they had some really interesting graphs. And this graph said, it says share of workers who said the stress and disappointments of the job are worth In 2016, 75 percent of teachers said, Yep, the stress, the good, the bad days, it's all worth it.

75 percent said that. Now, fast forward to 2024. Everybody guess what number you think it's going to be? It is, drumroll, 42%. 42 percent are saying, Yeah, this is worth it. 42 percent of teachers are saying that. Now, Is that a cultural shift? Do we have a different mindset amongst workers? Like, one of my questions is once I read that is, okay, the, uh, 58 percent that say it's not worth it, if it went to a new job, would they say the same thing?

I don't know that we just, that's the thing with data is you have to think all the way through it and not just look at a graph and, you know, assume, Oh, this is completely true. There's no fault in this data. So I thought of that with 58 percent say, yeah, this isn't worth it anymore. I don't know. Teachers are pretty hard workers.

People that get into the profession usually have a lot of grit. Usually they care about what they do. So I don't know if that 58% is saying, yeah, I, no job is worth it for me. Um, , 

Andrea: they're like, I don't, 

Gabe: I just, I don't want to labor stay home. Yeah. I just wanna stay at home. I just wanna play golf, which I'm in there.

Um, right. I don't know. What, what do you think? Do you, so 42% of people are saying teaching essentially is not worth it anymore. Is it 40%? Uh, sorry. 42% say it is worth it. Okay. 42% say it's so like 60, so under half. 

Andrea: What is it? 58. Math, not my thing. 58%. Yeah. 

Gabe: 58. Say that it's, it's, uh, it's not worth it. 

Andrea: Yeah.

So I would also be really interested in seeing, like, when they got those numbers, how long have those teachers been in the classroom? Like, are we looking at teachers who have been in the classroom for 20 years who are saying, like, not worth it anymore. And I would love to sit down and talk to them and be like, okay, so like, what do you feel like has changed?

Cause I feel like classroom, like management behaviors, expectations have all kind of shifted, but like, I don't know how to put that genie back in the bottle. I don't know what we can do. Yeah. To help these teachers. And this, this week when I was going in to talk to some of the middle school teachers, it was really strange because last year I met all of these teachers in, in the County and I placed my early field experience students with them.

And so I've, I've met with them and I've chatted with them before. And this time when I went in, the energy that I felt with them was just so. So discouraged and they just were, they were so depleted and I was really surprised because I like, like you said, it kind of feels like, and I've been talking to my, my teacher friends out in California and they were really happy with their classes this year and so I was really surprised to find that they just were so discouraged and several mentioned, you know.

wanting to get out of teaching, which like, and these are good teachers that I've, I've seen how they teach. I see their relationship with their students, but I feel like they're part of that shift into the 58 percent that are like, it's not worth it anymore. And I don't, I don't know what we can do to like, stop that, you know?

Gabe: Well, I think the job is just different than it was. And this is nothing new. This isn't groundbreaking information, but I was talking with, with, uh, a good friend of mine who, he's older, he's in his last couple years of teaching, he could retire. He had a whole, has a whole bunch of kids, they're all older now.

He used to be a full time head coach and then taught really hard classes at the high school level. And I said, how did you do all of that? How did you teach, coach, and you were a parent? And he said, oh, it was way easier back then. He's like, yeah, part of the difference is I'm older, And I don't have as much energy, but he said, the job is just different.

The job coaching is different. Teaching is different. So we're seeing that generational shift on people thinking, oh, this job is different than it used to be. And then they kind of look back at the glory days when it was easier. I think most people would probably agree teaching, teaching, 20 years ago was probably easier in terms of classroom management, but in terms of technology, that was way harder.

There's so many tools that we have now that makes it so it's easier for grade books, easier for coming up with lessons, easier for last minute things. Yeah, that makes a huge difference. But I think the kid that we have to teach now is much different. I think the way that parents look at education, parents look at parenting is much different than it used to be.

Some for good, some for bad. I'm not here to be the judge of that. That's for John Q. Listener to decide. So I, I don't know, it's just, none of this stuff is new information. Like we kind of talked before, these conversations have been had. What is it that's changing? I don't know. For me in year This is year five of full time.

I've been working in school since 2017. I think kids are slightly different post COVID, definitely are, but it isn't, it isn't massively different than what I'm used to, but I don't have 30 years under my belt to be able to come to that conclusion. What do people say at the college level with their students?

Are they saying, oh my gosh, the college kid now is way different than the college kid 20 years ago? 

Andrea: Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of pushback about the, the work level that students are willing to commit to in their college classes and all of that. There just seems to be a shift of like, I don't, I don't want to have to do anything that is going to make me feel any level of discomfort, whether that is like interrupting my schedule or doing something that's just really, really hard.

Like there's just. an aversion to that? Like, this is hard, therefore I'm not gonna do it. Like, you know, like, for my mental health, I'm going to choose to protect my mental health. What did they say? Like, protect my peace? Protect my peace, yeah. I'm gonna protect my peace, and I'm not gonna do this math homework.

It just really interferes with my peace. And it's like, I see you. I get it. Like, I too would love to protect my peace when I had to take a graduate level statistics course and my husband had to explain to me how to do statistics and it made me want to scream. I, I, that was not protecting my peace. But sometimes we have to do things that make us uncomfortable because we want what the results we need.

Like, I needed to know how to do the statistics to do the grad work, you know, and I've noticed, um, other professors mentioning the same thing where it's like, students are like, yeah, no, I think it's really unfair of you to expect me to do film the blank assignment. And it's like, fair? Like, what? 

Gabe: Yeah. Yeah.

And it's, and I think a lot of people, They hear about the mental health thing, protect my peace. They hear those phrases and say, yes, absolutely. There is a level to this of you have to take care of yourself. You absolutely do. A hundred percent. There's also times that I think we've gone overboard as a society and there are millions of people in this, in our country that want somebody to say that.

They say, thank you for saying we've gone a little bit overboard on some of this. It's okay to be uncomfortable. It is okay. It's okay. And I don't want to live in a world where nobody wants to be uncomfortable. I don't want to live in a world where people are so afraid to push the pain button a little bit, because what's going to make you better than the other people that are in your industry or the other people that are applying for your jobs or whatever you're in competition for people with is your ability to push the pain button and deal with being uncomfortable.

TikTok: Yeah, 

Gabe: that's awesome. If you, if, and if, if people are comfortable with being at a level of their, their job or schooling where they can do as little to get by without getting kicked out of school, getting kicked out of their job and, and live that way. Okay. You can go for that. That's not how I'm wired.

That's not how a lot of these people that are leaders in their industry, that's not how they're wired. And I think it's okay to say that. I think it is because I get fired up about this because. We approach so much stuff, I say with oven mitts, where, Oh, we got to be careful. Oh, we got to be careful. You know what?

Sometimes you got to push the pain button a little bit and you're going to be uncomfortable, but you want, you're going to teach yourself. You can do uncomfortable things. You can do hard and challenging things, and it's going to make you better in the long run. Now, It's really easy for somebody to clip that and say, this guy is Hartman's.

This guy is this and that. But you know what? I believe that. And so do so many other people, especially people that are industry leaders and hard workers. They say, yeah, it's okay to work hard. It is okay. 

Andrea: Yeah, and I, so I've, you know, I experienced the same thing. I, I have this vivid memory in like seventh grade, um, where I hit this moment when I was like 12, where I was like, I want to do things that people think I can't do.

I, like, I got this like random spark where I'm like, I like the feeling of someone going, You did that? And so, one of the first times that happened was when I talked to my gym teacher, and I was the kid in gym class that was like, passive aggressively walking the mile on mile days because you can't force me to run, right?

Like, that was just my attitude. I was a terrible middle school girl, right? So 

Gabe: angsty. 

Andrea: So, you don't know my pain, right? So ridiculous. And I would just like walk the mile passive aggressively. And I remember vividly telling this PE teacher who I had made miserable for the entire year by just doing the bare minimum always.

And I told her, I was like, yeah, I'm going to try out for cross country. And she laughed and she's like, you? And I remember being like, uh, Yeah, me. And so then I was committed, right? Cause someone told me I couldn't do something or really reacted in a way that kind of said I couldn't do something. So I signed up for cross country.

I was the slowest person, you know, that scene in Jumanji where there's like the entire like stampede and then there's the Rhino at the end. You were Rhino? Oh, I was the Rhino at the end. I was last on Every single race. And my mom told me when I was a kid, she's like, I used to literally just sit there and cry because I was so proud of you because you always finished.

You were so slow, but you always finished. And now I am a mom and my daughter is six. And she loves to swim. She's a really good swimmer and she tried out for swim team and she made it, but barely. And now I have to watch her in swim team practice with a bunch of first graders and second graders. And she's in kindergarten and she is the slowest right now.

And I have to tell you, it is. The most painful thing I have ever experienced sitting there watching her struggle. But exactly what you said is why I'm like, nope. Like, and she, like every conversation we have is I'm like, I am so proud of you for working hard. Like this is super hard. And she's like, I'm the slowest.

And I'm like, that's okay. Everybody starts out slow. You know, how they get fast as they get back in the water and they keep pushing. And like, so. That I think is the thing that a lot, a lot of times we kind of try and like err away from is because we're afraid of making people feel uncomfortable or have any of that.

But like, I'm like, no, because the reason I've done so much of what I've done in life is because of that stupid cross country team where I knew I was coming in last, I literally like, they would have, they would be picking up the cones as I was running by. Like I was so slow, but I finished and I learned so much about like, Tenacity and grit and like finishing the race.

So now my daughter is also, and she has never once asked to quit. She just kind of sits there and thinks about it and she's like, yeah, okay. All right. Like, and I'm so proud of her, but it is, it is like physically painful as a parent to watch your kids struggle like that. It, I understand why parents want to avoid that piece for sure.

Gabe: Yeah. So I coach cross country and running is been a huge part of my life. And the thing about running specifically is it shows you that you can do things that really suck. You can do it. I'll always remember when I was a middle schooler, when I was terrible, man, I was bad in middle school. I always remember at this race, the coach goes, Hey, there's three people behind you.

And it was like, come on, man. There's three people behind you. You're better than this. You can do this. And that just sticks in my head, thinking of, oh, I don't want to feel this feeling anymore. And I didn't quit. I went on and ran on a nationally ranked cross country team in college. Your ending 

Andrea: story is different than mine.

Gabe: Yeah, but, but. But, but the thing is the, the lessons that you learn from sports will stick with you for so long. And my dad, he was my cross country coach. And one of the things that he would always do, we would have Saturday morning practice, Saturday morning, early morning. And I never understood why we would have Saturday practice.

I'm like, dad, just let's go run by yourself. If I want to go run at noon on Saturday, let us go run at noon on Saturday. And now as I've gotten older, I'm like, Oh, I get why you did that. You did that to show us, hey, Saturday mornings, when you want to be sleeping in, no, go, go do something hard, go do something difficult, and then go see what you can accomplish.

And that sticks with me. It's like, I can do these challenging things. I looked up a quote here, and I'm not going to act like this was my quote. This is a Michael Jordan quote. Michael Jordan literally said this. Uh, so he's a team owner of a NASCAR team and I love NASCAR. And one of his, his drivers was, was in a kind of a tough, a high pressure situation.

And MJ sent this text message that said, things you want more cost more. And I think about that a lot, things you want more cost more. So if you want to accomplish things, if you want to be, if you want to do very challenging things, if you want to be at the top of your industry, if you want to be good at whatever it is, it's going to cost more, you're going to have to do something.

I think about another quote that says, um, if you want to do things that, but. If you want to do things that most people aren't doing, you have to do things most people aren't doing. And that sounds like word salad, but that means most people are not at the top of whatever their, whatever industry they're in.

So if you want to get to the top, you have to do things that most people are not doing. What is that? And now that doesn't mean. Everything should be a competition in your industry. No, but that should also mean it's okay to work hard. It's okay to try to accomplish things and it's okay to push the pain button a little bit.

Now, with all that being said, there's lots of young people that have that mentality. Lots of young people think that way. They're like, yeah, I do want to work hard. I do want to accomplish this. But there is much more of a dialogue of people saying, yeah, I care about your mental health. Well, at what cost, at what cost are we just making things so soft for people?

And I, I don't know, there's also young people are living in a different world than you and I grew up in. They're living in the world of social media, living in the world of having so much access to information. Yeah, it is more challenging. It does feel like it is heavier on them. But I guess the counter argument to that is, well, we're all living in the same world, aren't we?

Andrea: Right. Aren't we 

Gabe: all dealing with it? Aren't we all trying to find our way? Right. 

Andrea: That is a perfect place for us to take a break, so we will be right back.

Welcome back to Those Who Can't Do. Um, so, picking up on, uh, Doing hard things and working hard and all of that. I came across a TikTok this week that was from a, a mom who posted about her child's homework. And we've both said that we don't assign homework for, I didn't assign homework for high school unless students didn't get the work done during class that I had allotted them time to do, then they would have homework.

But I always gave ample time. Um, But this parent apparently got some, some homework for their kindergartner. So let's watch the Tik 

TikTok: TOK. 

Andrea: It's 

TikTok: a little PSA for any parents that might not know this. And I just recently learned this is that you can actually opt out of homework for your children. I didn't know that until recently.

And I just sent my son's kindergarten teacher, a cutesy little email saying, I'm sorry, based on the stress, mental, physical anxiety, it's causing my kid, we are done. We are done opting out for the rest of the year. On the first week of school, first, maybe the first day, he got this packet. It's for August.

It doesn't look like it's all that bad, but it's about 15 to 20 pages, double sided. You do the math. We have been working on it and trying to work on it to the best of our abilities. And it is causing him so much mental, physical stress. This morning, I had him sit down. I feel so guilty for this. We were sitting down.

I told him, you can't even watch a show this morning. You can't do anything. It's going to be radio silence until you sit here and eat your breakfast and finish at least one or two pages of this because you're way behind. This is so much work for him. I started crying, he started crying. It was an emotional mess.

I felt so guilty dropping him off at school. He, like, didn't want to be there. For the last two weeks, he's told me he doesn't even like school and doesn't want to be there anymore. Which hurts my mama heart, because you were five. Five. You are in kindergarten. The only thing that you should be worried about is learning and what time snack time is.

I don't know. Anyways, but like, what are we teaching kids? Like, what are we teaching them? That, oh, yeah, here you go. You're gonna go to work and you're gonna be paid salary. But it doesn't matter if you don't finish your work in the eight to ten hours that you're there Monday through Friday. You're gonna bring that work home and you're gonna do that on your own time.

No. Not up in here. We are not teaching our children that work to live. We don't live to work. Yeah, I don't know if y'all knew that. But I sent her the email. I hope it's well received. I don't know. He goes to a charter school, but Still doesn't matter in this household. We're done doing homework. I want my kid to love school I want him to love to learn.

I want him to have fun. I want to enjoy it Yeah, I just think y'all should know if you didn't know that happy monday 

Andrea: a lot to unpack there a lot to unpack I have many and and Number one as a mom, I understand her perspective Of seeing your child struggle with homework. Um And being very concerned about like changing their mindset about the way they look at school and all of that.

That being said, the irony of her saying that nobody works a salary and then takes their work home and because they didn't get it done during the day, too bad. So I'm like, that, that's what, that's what. Teachers are, yep, that's what teachers do. Yep. You are describing what teachers and what a lot of people do.

And many other 

Gabe: careers. Many, 

Andrea: many other careers. My husband's in the medical field and he's a PA. And guess what? If he doesn't finish his charting during the day, he will then have to go home and finish his charting. Like so many fields, like you have to work until the work is done. Now, my 

Gabe: mother, my mother is a dance teacher and owns her own company and is always working.

Yeah. Like all, like, She's 

Andrea: probably got to do the books, got to do all that kind of stuff. Everything. Everything. 

Gabe: Gosh, there's a lot to unpack in a short video. Right. And I want to, I want to be careful and make it so I'm not coming at it from a personal attack. I'm sure she's a wonderful mother. I'm sure she's a great person.

I think one of the things that I've learned about myself As I've had a little bit more time in schools and around parents is I don't understand parent emotion until I have a kid. If that makes sense. Like, I don't know, like, like the, the, the work hard, pull yourself up by your bootstrap. Part of me is saying, Oh, you know what?

Well, it's okay for your kid to feel uncomfortable. That's all right. They shouldn't feel uncomfortable. Like just keep going. You know, it's going to build character. 

TikTok: Yeah, 

Gabe: I, I want to go there in my head, but I'm also like, wait a second. This is someone's kid. I don't have a kid and I don't know what it's like for my own child.

Maybe that child, maybe the child she's saying is a super, super hard worker and is, and now seeing him break down and she's like, this isn't right. This, I know my kid, I know my kid works hard and now this isn't. that this something's not right here. So, so I, I don't know. There's a happy medium between when do you give, at what age do you give kids homework and how much do you give kids homework?

And then also like you're at a charter school, there's high expectation. 

Andrea: Yeah. 

Gabe: That's, I don't know. What do you think? 

Andrea: I think number one, I don't think that this teacher would have dealt with this if she had given the homework one page at a time. Yeah. I think the problem is that she gave. a huge packet and that immediately overwhelmed the child and the mom.

Um, I think if she had probably just given a, a sheet a night, right? Because that's basically what 20, what did you say? 20 to 30 pages over the course of a month, you're looking at like a page. And my, my daughter has, has homework assignments and actually. So my daughter, she's actually repeating kindergarten because she was very, very young for her class.

And with ADHD and all of that, we just made the decision, it's better for her to do it again. So right now she doesn't, but at the end of the year, I know she's going to have homework again. So right now I'm giving her homework. Like I, because one of the reasons we did, we chose to repeat is because reading was really challenging and phonics were really challenging.

I don't want her to lose all the progress we made last year. So. Every single day we come home, I sit her down, we go through and we read for 10 minutes. Like, we're not talking like an hour or anything, but we sit for 10 to 15 minutes and we, we practice her reading. Now, my son is four and he's in preschool and all the expectations are of him right now.

in preschool are, if we're doing something and the teacher asks you to do it, you should be doing it. Right? Like that's, that's it. And yet I got a call the second week of school that he was not meeting those expectations. He was not saying 

Gabe: yes. He said, okay, I'll do it. Nope. 

Andrea: So they were using a metaphor.

They're like, okay, your, your thumb and your pointer finger. That's like the mommy and the daddy and the mommy and daddy drive the car. And the kids, the other fingers, they sit in the back seat and that's how you draw. And so what he would do is he'd be like, no, the kids drive the car and would just like grab the crayons.

And just to like Troll her essentially. And so because of he was literally refusing to do anything, kept getting sent to the administrator's office because he was just like, no, I'm not doing it. And so for him now, what he has to do every day when we get home is we practice listening and obeying. for coloring.

So because he doesn't enjoy coloring, I may, I have one coloring sheet. It's been three weeks now, one coloring sheet, and he has to sit and he has to color for like two minutes, color one part of the page just to like reinforce the whole, like if, if a parent or a teacher says we sit down and we do the thing, you should sit down and do the thing.

And I wouldn't think that's controversial. I posted a video about how my son had gotten in trouble at school and all of that. And there were so many people that were like, that's insane. How can you expect a four year old to, you know, just listen? And I'm like, here's the deal, you guys. My son is a flight risk every single day.

Like he's the type of kid that he, where I am is irrelevant to him. I need to know if I say something wrong. Stop. Or a teacher says stop. He stops before he gets hit by a car. Like, just safety wise, I need to know that he will listen. And he really is just so stubborn. And so I'm like, God, like, how do we not realize that?

Like, they do need to be on board with what we're doing. Like, it's not insane things. 

Gabe: Because they're kids. 

Andrea: Because 

Gabe: they're kids. They're freaking kids. Like, I, I think as a society. Sometimes we start to look at kids like they're adults. It's like, wait a second. They're a kid. 

TikTok: They 

Gabe: don't run the show. 

TikTok: Like, 

Gabe: no, no, no, no.

They, they, they are a kid. Their brain is not developed. Now, should you listen to your kids? Absolutely. Should you take what they say, uh, seriously? Absolutely. You should. You still should be the authoritative figure because you're a parent, right? So, 

Andrea: that's the crazy thing is like, I shared like that little story on social media and people are like, well, you know, he knows what he wants and I'm like, this is the same child that the other night I was snuggling with him and I was like, goodnight, and he gently stroked my face and he said, mommy.

Did you know your face peels off? And I'm like, whoa! Kids are unhinged. Like, they're not going to make the best of choices. We should probably help them with that process. And I just, it was all, it was baffling to me how many people said that. But we also have a follow up video from that same creator about the teacher's response.

TikTok: Okay, I want to give you guys a little update on the homework teacher situation. So I emailed her around noon, picked him up from school at 2. 30. She walked him over to my car and she's like, oh, I got your email. And I said, oh, great. She said, I'm sorry, I didn't have time to respond. I said, no big deal. I know you're busy.

She goes, I've just never had a parent email me something like that. or complain and I said, 

um, 

never once did I complain. I just addressed a situation that's no longer going to work for our family. And I'm pretty certain that you can't mandate homework, especially for kindergartners. And she said, okay, I understand.

Well, you know, I know all students are different. I just didn't think I was giving out that much work. And I said, okay, y'all, I went home and counted the pages. It's 15 pages, double sided 30 pages of homework. And she was trying to tell me like, oh, he can just do one a night. So He's also supposed to be doing homework on Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday night, like every single day in the entire month of August.

You don't want to work on weekends. I told him, I go, don't, when you're done, when your kids go home from class, do you want to stay back and work another couple hours every day? Do you want to work on weekends? I know teachers do. I give teachers a lot of credit, but. Put yourself in their shoes. And she was like, well, how about we do a reading log?

And I said, I'm down for a reading log. You know, we can do 10 to 15 minutes a night, five days a week. That works. That makes sense for a five year old. I think she got a little irritated with the fact that I said like no homework at all because she's like, well, he needs to learn his sight words. They're going to be on the state testing and he's going to be tested on that.

And that's important. And I'm like, Have you ever tried to sit down with the five year old, maybe a six year old, seven year old, any kid, and want to try to do homework when they literally physically, mentally, emotionally are not there or invested? They are not learning or absorbing the information. So regardless of whatever sight words he needs to learn, if he's not in a good mood, he's making the whole tension in the house upset, they're not going to learn those sight words in this moment anyways, no matter what.

And we try to make it fun. I try to make it entertaining. I try to make it playful. It doesn't matter. He doesn't want to sit there and do it. He don't want to sit there and do it. My kids are just like me, stubborn as fucking hell. So I get what she needs with the state funding and all this shit. I get it because it's a fucking Public school and public schools are just indoctrination camps.

I know that even a charter school. It might as well be the same I still put my foot down. I'm happy to read with him. He enjoys reading with me, but I stand my ground We're not doing homework in this house. I don't fucking care I told her we would do our best to finish out the packet for this week. Turn it in on thursday We won't even be here friday.

We'll see what she puts together for next month, but No more fucking packets are happening in this house. That's for damn sure. 

Andrea: First of all, okay, I forgot to mention this in the first video, is that true that we can't give homework? Because I don't think that's 

Gabe: true. I was just gonna say that. I like how the basis of the argument is, she's like, you can't do that.

And for the teacher side, it's like, Yeah, I can, we 

Andrea: can, you don't have to do it and it can pretty Sure, sure you 

Gabe: can. 

Andrea: Yeah. Like that I think is the, the ne ah, . 

Gabe: So, and, and these types of videos are always so interesting to me. So that first video. I'm willing to bet, and if you look at the comments, and I haven't looked at the comments yet, I'm willing to bet you're going to see a big split on people saying, Oh my gosh, that's crazy what the teacher is doing.

That's insane. These teachers nowadays, that's going to be 50 percent of the argument. And then the other 50 percent is going to say, Oh my gosh, just work with your kid. Just work with your kid. Kids shouldn't run the show. Like, I feel like that's probably what the, the comments are going to look like on that first video.

Now the second video, I think it was going to be much different. Shout out to the teacher for bargaining with her and be like, all right, let's do a reading log. Let's do it like trying to make it work. Now, if what the mom is saying is true, is yeah, she, she's like, my kid is supposed to be doing homework on Sundays.

Yeah, let's avoid that. Yeah, let's avoid doing homework on Saturdays for elementary kids. I would get on board with that, but I don't have all the facts here. I don't know what it, like, what's the actual due date? Like, are, are those pages truly due where you're going to have to do seven days a week of a one pager?

Yeah, that's a lot. Right. Is that actually the case? 

Andrea: Well, and I think that there's also just like, kindergartner homework is not. 11th grader homework. We're talking about, like, you read the instructions and it says, hey, color all of the spots that have a seven orange. So that they know what a seven is and what orange is.

And they 

Gabe: know how to move their hand. 

Andrea: Let the, let the, let the parents drive. The back 

Gabe: seat, yeah. That's right. Yeah, 

Andrea: yeah. Exactly. And so, for me, like, she said 30 pages, that, that is a lot. I don't know what those pages look like. Are they, is it like, they're having to trace all of these words? Like, I could see that being excessive and all of that.

Um, I think it's really funny again that she's just like, Would you want to stay here after the kids leave? I'm like, Baby girl, she does, she does. And she's also trying to, like, Have you ever had to sit with a child this age and try and get them to work? That's what we do. 

You mean teaching? 

Gabe: You mean 

Andrea: spending 20 minutes every day with your own kid?

One kid at the kitchen table is extremely frustrating for you? We get it. It's all day for us, baby. 

Gabe: That's why Louis C. K. 's bit about math teachers is so perfect. 

Andrea: I don't think I have. 

Gabe: Oh, it's so funny. Is that the 

Andrea: learn math one where it's like you just have to make kids learn math? Is that the one? No, it's the 

Gabe: one where he's like only I think he says like only crazy people won't become teachers and it's like you're you're the people that are there to learn.

are just, they live in the area around the school. None of them want to be there. None of them want to learn what they're doing and you're going to get paid hardly anything to do it. And like, that's kind of the situation where it's like, yeah, those kids, just because they're in school, doesn't mean they want to be there and learn.

Like, yes, a kid goes home at night and they really don't want to learn the information because they're a kid, but you know what, there's also kids that are like that all the time in the classroom. But, once again, I don't have a kid, I don't know what it's like at home, and I'm not just dogging on this gal.

Like, how your kid acts is how your kid acts. You know your kid the best. 

Andrea: I do appreciate, like, the frustration of, like, she, you know, Also has a busy life, you know, and it is hard as a parent to come home after a long day and then you sit down with your kid who's tired and they've kept it together all day in kindergarten and you then have to try and get them to work.

But I just, for the parents that are so frustrated by that, I just want to encourage you, like it, it may be, you know, And this is awful to say, but it may be the only one on one instruction that they are receiving because I would love to say that every kindergarten teacher has only 18 kids in their class and has the time to spend individual instructional time with every single kid.

But let's be realistic. Most classrooms, they have more than 20 kindergartners. I can't fathom that, by the way. That is a nightmare to me. Crazy. I can't stand them teaching elementary. 

Gabe: I'm so not wired that way. I am so not wired that way. 

Andrea: That's terrifying. Like, they just learned how to stop pooping their pants and now you're going to try and teach them to write their name.

That's insane to me. Like, wild, wild job. And so then to say, like, Hey parents, like we want to partner with you to help your child get a little bit more individualized time on these things to make sure that they, they keep up. I, I don't feel like that's an unfair ask. And I feel like that, that is one of the things that has changed is I remember doing flashcards with my mom.

I remember. Because big surprise, math was really hard for me. And so I had to do multiplication flashcards with my parents until I figured it out. And I remember crying and I probably ruined the whole family's mood. The whole vibe. The whole vibe was ruined by me. I guarantee you. But we had to learn it because my parents were like, well, if you don't learn this, then you're not going to move on.

And especially in those first few years, like, That was one of the main deciding factors for me with making educational decisions for my kids is like, if they can't read at grade level by third grade, they are unlikely to ever get to grade level, and they will always be behind their peers because now they're using reading to learn about science and history and all these other things.

And so it's like, okay, uh, we need to really make sure that she, she can get there. Right? And so I just, I, I hope that that mom's reading log works. Makes up for anything that was missed in the work packets. Again, I also applaud that teacher because I think that is a really great way of responding. Of being like, okay, like because I think I would probably respond the same way.

I wouldn't be like, no, your kid has to do this homework. I think it would very much be like, okay, well, let's figure out what's going to work for you and your family. Um, I don't know what that would look like in a grade book. That would be really hard because like it, and I, I also don't know in kindergarten how grade books even work.

I feel like it's just like smiley faces and like stickers stick, like emojis, stickers, you know, like they were here. You, you get a 

Gabe: green start today. You get a yellow start. Yeah. I, I don't know. I was talking to a teacher at my school who is also a parent and I was just talking about parenting stuff and, 'cause I hope to one day be a parent and it scares the crap outta me.

And one of the things that, that this. Teacher said, she said, as a parent, try not to take the path of least resistance all the time. I was like, Oh yeah, that really does make sense. Don't take the path of least resistance all the time. Because like, I think there are so many parents that are so stretched thin.

They absolutely are. There's parents out there that are exhausted and they come home and their bills are tight, money's tight, they're, they've got so much going on. And you know what they do just want to give their kid their iPad. They need. They need some time. I get it. I, I a hundred percent get that. And I feel, I feel for those parents, but there's, there's other situations where don't take the path of least resistance.

And now that is so easy for me to say as a dude who doesn't have a kid, I understand that, but I think most parents would say, yeah, that's probably pretty sound advice. And that's a good thing to say. 

Andrea: Yeah, I, and it's something that I recently had to adjust with, um, cause you know, my husband just finished grad school.

I, you know, finished a year ago. And so we are very used to being stretched very thin and being very overtired with everything. And so, We were sitting there trying to figure out with, with our kids and just working out because we would go somewhere and they would be the kids that were acting a fool because we're not iPad parents and a lot of parents who have kids like that, just give them the iPad and we don't do that, but that means that they're acting a fool in public.

And I'm like, this is embarrassing. Like they, yeah. Got to get it together. And so we started talking about things that our parents did that we hadn't done yet. And so one of the things is chores and being super intentional about eating at the table because a lot of times we were just like, I would make dinner and then we would eat like in the living room or whatever.

And we kind of got into that habit over the course of a year. And now We eat dinner at the table and my son has to help me with the dishes and has to wipe off the table and my daughter has to sweep and mop. And the fact that they now have Like an expectation of them where they have to listen and obey and do a task that is annoying to them, but they have to do it because like, it just kind of like trains that.

And it's, I think that we kind of got into that habit, like you said, of like taking the easier way because we were just tired, you know? Yeah. And it was really frustrating and really humbling to kind of be sitting there and being like, Oh, I'm tired. Well, we can't, we can't keep doing what we're doing because this is embarrassing.

Like, our kids are acting wild. We do not want to be those parents. Like, we want to instill a sense of, like, discipline and like, like, they need to be functioning people. Um, and, And it was really hard for a few days, but I gotta tell you, like, behaviors got way, way, way better when we all of a sudden were like, expectation is your butt is in that seat for dinner and then you are going to clean and you are going to help because you are part of the family and it's exactly what your friend had said where it's like, okay, we're not going to be taking the path of least resistance because we're 

Gabe: And I, I apply that in my classroom as well, where I caught myself this week, where I was trying to give a lesson and one of my class periods, they're really chatty, really chatty.

My other class periods, they're not super chatty. And my notes went really smooth in the other class periods. And then this one class period, they're really chatty. And I thought to myself, all right, let's just get through these notes and this presentation really quickly so we can just get to the activity.

And I was like, no, wait a second. I'm taking the path of least resistance here. These kids are capable of stop talking, focus for a little bit, and pay attention to this information. I think as teachers, we can apply that in our classroom. Don't take the path of least resistance. But the flip side of that is yes, each class period, you do have to kind of tailor it to the kids that are in there and you have to make some tweaks.

But it's also okay to tell students, hey, this is going to be a little uncomfortable. By uncomfortable, I mean, you're going to have to pay attention and do something that's not fun. And I think that's something that is really big with kids that they have to hear is we're going to do something that is not fun, but it's worth it.

It's going to be okay. I remember when I was a kid, when I would do tutoring, I was always a bad reader. I was bad at math. I was bad at school. I was a really well behaved kid, but I sucked at school. I remember my parents would send me to tutoring and it was not fun. Learning to read was not fun, but you know what's awesome now as an adult is I'm caught back up.

I'm not behind on my reading because my parents put a lot of money and time and energy into helping me and giving me the resources that I needed to get caught back up. And I'm so lucky that my parents did that. There's other kids that they don't have that. I completely feel for those kids where when, like the point you said, when you're, if you get to third grade, you're not at reading level, stats show you're probably never going to get to grade level reading, which is, is, is horrible.

Like that, that sucks for those kids. 

Andrea: Yeah, um, so one of the things I want to make sure we do is do you have any stories of things that have happened this year with your students? Anything wild? That has occurred. 

Gabe: Oh, nothing too chaotic yet. I felt old the other day. I told my cross country kids that I graduated high school in 2016 and oh my gosh, they thought I was, they thought I was, I was about ready to get my AARP card.

One of the kids, he goes, you graduated in 2016, you're approaching unk status. I said, that is so funny. That is so funny because like, unk status is the older guy, kind of wiser. I was like, I'm 26 years old. I am not approaching unk status and I always tell kids when they give me a hard time for my age, I'm like, listen, it's the people my age who are setting the trends.

I am as trendy as they possibly, like you guys follow the trends that my age sets. So at some point I'll be out of that age demographic, but no, I really haven't had too many crazy stories yet. Um, I had, uh, I dunno, a lot of The older students from years past will come out and say, hi, that's always fun. But nothing crazy yet, which is good, which is really, really good.

What about you? Have you had anything crazy at the university? 

Andrea: Nothing, you know, university, when you're paying to be there, you're usually not. going to be too wild like most of the time that they're really cool and I teach all future teachers so they're not like being disrespectful and all that which for content is terrible honestly I'm like can you guys like I don't know do something do some shots before you come in let's look live in the set let's spice things up um but I was at the middle school today and it's It's, you know, cause you're there every day.

So I'm sure that students, when they first arrived, they're like, you're that TikTok teacher. Right. And are like super hyped about it. Right. But you're there every day and then they get over it and they're like, whatever. Right. Well, I am so rarely now around that. age that like I went in to talk to a teacher today and it was a group of eighth graders and sixth and seventh graders don't recognize me.

Eighth graders, usually I get a couple. And so I went in just to talk to the teacher and I'm trying to talk to her and I hear them in the background being like, 

That's that TikTok teacher. That's the one. She talks about the stuff on TikTok. 

And I'm like, trying to focus on the teacher. And I brought my graduate assistant with me, and she's like, me?

I'm not on TikTok. Who's on TikTok? And I'm just like, shut up, shut up, shut up. Because I'm just like, I could, number one, I don't want to distract because I was already interrupting class. Teacher wasn't in direct doing direct instruction, but I didn't want to disrupt what they were doing. And, but I also didn't want to be a jerk.

And so I just kind of like, uh, and like, like awkward. And I'm so awkward. And especially if it's a crowd, right? Like if it's one student who comes up to me, I'll be like, what's up? And I'll chat with them. And I'm like, But if it's like a crowd, I don't know. I'm like a deer in headlights. Like, I've gone through before at like a crowd of people.

One time after, um, a board teacher's show, I was walking out and there was a crowd of people and they're like, Oh, like 

Gabe: a celebrity. I do. 

Andrea: That's what I tell people all the time. I was like, anytime I feel bad about myself, I'm like, I'm gonna go to a teacher comedy show. I'm gonna call it Gasper. I'm going to go to a board teacher's show.

I'm a couple hours and then go home and my kids will humble me very quickly again. Um, but like, I was walking out and there was like a crowd of people that were like waiting for Ubers or whatever. And all of them, somebody said, Educator Andrea, and they all looked at me and like, I don't know what to do in that scenario.

Like, I'm just like, hi, like, hello, hello. Like, that is 

Gabe: me. It is 

Andrea: I. You have a 

Gabe: question for me or are we just gonna stand here awkwardly and look at each other? 

Andrea: Right! And like my car was like 10 feet away and I had not cleaned it recently either and so like I open up my car and like, like a piece of trash like falls out and I'm like, I'm gonna go and I'm gonna need everyone to forget that this occurred.

Thank you so much. Bye bye now. Like, oh, sorry. So embarrassing. But yeah, nothing, nothing too chaotic for me. I did. I, somebody submitted a story where they said a eighth grader threw a dead fly at the teacher and they're like, why did, why did you do that? And they're like, I just wanted to cause chaos. And I'm like a frontal 

Gabe: lobe development.

That's just 

Andrea: like the middle schoolers. 

Gabe: Like, uh, a dude who now has a fully formed frontal lobe. The way that I look at life is so differently. It's incredible. I, I, I always think about mitigating risk now, all of a sudden. I'm like, this is crazy. Like, I'll, I'll watch. The other day I was watching like the Avengers, like there was like a Marvel movie that was on TV and when I was younger, I'd be like, there's a chick.

This is awesome. And now I watch it and I see them just like destroy the city. I'm like, Oh, I wonder if there's gonna be like government subsidies that help pay for the insurance. You're thinking 

Andrea: of logistics. Yeah. I'm 

Gabe: like, how would these insurance claims work? Like, man, that would really suck. Could I, would my insurance got picked up if my car got, and like, I just started going down the path.

I'm like. Dude, I wish my frontal brain was a little less developed. Now I'm becoming a, I just, maybe I am approaching bunk status. Maybe those kids are right. 

Andrea: Yeah, when you start thinking about the insurance implications of Marvel's movies, I think that that's the moment. That's the moment. You have, you've passed over, just wait until you're a dad too, and then you're just gonna be like that person who he just punched.

I know they're a bad guy, but that was somebody's little boy at one point. 

Gabe: They were once a baby. They were just a little baby, 

Andrea: yeah, and it just, it really gets in your heart. It's, it's real rough. So, okay, before, before, I want to ask you, how is your book going? It's, thank you for asking. It is so good. It's so much fun.

It's so much more fun to write than I thought it would be. I don't know why. I think because most of the writing I've done has been academic. And so I'm sitting and like doing research and all of that. But all of the chapters in my book are by, like, I'm working on the classroom management one. And so The very first thing I do in all of my chapters is I tell a story of where I screwed up.

And so I have had so much fun with that part because it does feel a lot more creative, a little bit more in the vein of like what my TikTok videos do and all of that. Um, and that's been super, super fun at the same time, kind of talking with my teacher friends and being like, okay, like what? What do we need to include in the classroom management one, you know, and all of that.

But yeah, it's been really, really fun so far. So thank you for asking. That's great. 

Gabe: It's so cool. I can't wait for when it comes out. Get a signed copy. I want it signed. 

Andrea: Yes, you will absolutely get one. I actually, we were, I was just talking with, uh, the whole team and I'm like, okay, like everyone who's come on the podcast, we have to like make sure that we like send like signed copies and all of that to them since they like took the time and, and all of that.

So it, it feels so far away, but at the same time, like I have to be done with my writing portion by eight o'clock. April of 2025 and then it's releasing like the following year because the rest of the year is like editing and marketing and all that kind of stuff. So I'm working a lot on it, but then I tell people it's like, yeah, it's like spring summer of 2026 and they're like, oh, that's so far away.

Uh huh. Yeah. They're 

Gabe: saying, oh, do you think writing a book was easy? Yeah, exactly. 

Andrea: It's, it's hard work, but it's, yeah, it's been, it's been super fun. So what do you have going on? Where can people check out your, your latest stuff? 

Gabe: Check out my stuff, YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, look up Gabe Danenbring.

Uh, on Facebook, there is an account that is called Gabe Teaches. That's not me. Quit following it. They've got like 88, 89, 000 followers. Like how many more times am I going to record this? I know, I know. It's like, come on, man. I'm trying to get some of that. Like bring it over here, bring that, bring that monetization from my own videos over to the guy who made the videos.

No, I'm on, uh, everything, Gabe Danenberg, uh, check out the, uh, Teachers Off Duty podcast. I'm on there quite a bit. So, 

Andrea: uh, 

Gabe: that's on, on Spotify, YouTube. 

Andrea: You fly out to Florida for that, don't you? 

Gabe: Yeah, yeah, it's a lot. Last week, we flew out, uh, took the first flight out of Sioux Falls on Saturday and filmed all day, then took the first flight back from Orlando on Sunday, and I'm still recovering.

I'm still talking. Yeah, 

Andrea: I've, uh, that's awesome. So, so do you have any, like, live events or anything like that, or you're doing a podcast thing? 

Gabe: Podcast stuff. Uh, not a ton of live events during the school year, which is something that I, I really wanted. I just, you know how it goes with this social media teaching world.

You got to keep the first thing first. And for me, the first thing that has to stay first is teaching. I can't just be burning both ends of the stick. I'm on the road a little bit for different events and things. Um, I, You had the coolest event that I've ever been asked to speak at. Uh, I got asked by my college to be my com the commencement speaker.

And I got That's amazing! I got the email and I was in the middle of class and I about started crying. I was like, this is crazy. Like, you want me to be the guy? I said, how many I want to say, how many people declined? Am I like 10B on the list? Am I like way down? Are that many people busy? Uh, so I'm, I'm super excited about that.

So if there's any more estate dragons listening to this, I'll be there. See you in Minnesota, 

everybody. I love it. Yeah. What about you? You never get a plug yourself. What do you got going 

on? What's going on? I mean, you 

Andrea: basically already covered it with the book. That is the main thing is the book. And my life right now is like book, podcast, college, teaching, stuff, all of that good stuff.

So yeah, but thank you so much for coming on. This was super, super fun. I appreciate it. And I hope you'll, you'll come on and hang out with us again. 

Gabe: Hey, you send me the invite. I will be here. Thanks for having me. 

Andrea: Awesome. Will do. All right. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to those who can't do, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Gabe. It was so fun chatting with him again, especially since he was, you know, one of the people who came on early, early on in the podcast. And I just think it's really fun to hear from somebody who's still very much in the classroom and still really enjoys it.

I think it's. It's excellent. So definitely go check him out on the board teachers. No teachers off duty. That's what it is. Board teachers is who runs it. That's why I got it mixed up. Teachers off duty podcast. Um, he and a few other people who have had on the podcast are over there and it's good stuff. If you have thoughts about what we chatted about today, um, or suggestions on who you want to have come onto the podcast, you can contact us at Andrea at human dash content dot com.

Or you can contact me at Educator Andrea on Instagram and TikTok, or you can contact the whole Human Content Podcast family on Instagram and TikTok at Human Content Pods. And thank you so much to those of you guys who have left feedback and reviews. I really appreciate it. I read every single one and they mean a lot to me.

So, thank you specifically to Norm0805 on Apple, who said, I'm not a teacher, nor is my profession any way related to education, but I happened to come across Andrea on Instagram one day and found her reels very entertaining. Thank you. I then tried listening to her podcast and really enjoy hearing about, you know, what that world.

She'll probably love me for this comparison, but I also enjoy listening to Office Ladies Podcast. I do love you for that. For similar reasons, they open up windows to a world that I'm only marginally familiar with. I find that I am entertained and enlightened at the backstory behind those professions.

Thank you so much. I do really love you for, for making the Office Ladies Podcast reference, because I love them. If you guys want to catch full episodes on YouTube, they are up every week. So that way you could Like actually see the videos that we play and all of that good stuff. Um, they are up on Educator Andrea on YouTube.

Thank you so very much for listening. I am your host, Andrea Forkham. A very special thank you to our guest co host, Gabe Dannenbring. Our executive producers are Andrea Forcum, Aron Korney, Rob Goldman, and Shahnti Brooke. Our editor is Andrew Sims. Our engineer is Jason Portizzo. Our music is by Omer Ben Zvi.

Our recording location is the Indiana State Bi College of Education. To learn more about our Those Who Can't Do's program, disclaimer, and ethics policy, and submission, verification, and licensing terms, you can go to podcasterandrea. com. Those Who Can't Do is a human content production.

Thank you so much for watching. If you're like me and you're thinking, gosh, I really need more of those who can't do in my life. You can start your binging right now by clicking on that playlist button right over there. New episodes are out every Thursday, so please subscribe and join us each week on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.